Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14

[Judy Taylor]

Knowing someone after the spirit is not the same as having tea and coffee for 20yrs with them Lance. Paul said "I determined to know nothing amongst you but Jesus Christ and Him crucified" - what die he mean? When he judged the man in sin he said he was absent physically but with them in spirit.  You are residing at a different place.  I am speaking of something you don't appear to be able to relate to.  judyt   On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 05:55:10 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: How interesting that those who did not 'know' this man would lay claim to 'knowing' this man beter than the man who did 'now this man.   Like someone said 'you cannot picture in a picture how a picture pictures what it pictures.' From: Bill Taylor   A born again person who is right with God knows they are born again and right with God.  If they don't know this it is a huge red flag - and this man was crying out for help.....   No, this man was a strong, solid, dedicated believer. His problem was, he had been deceived by people like you. Again, please just leave me and my words, thoughts, posts out of your considerations. I have ask you nicely now three times.   Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:14 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 How terribly sad  - did somebody counsel and pray with this man who was obviously under conviction of the Spirit? You are judging him by "outward appearances" Bill.  You can't know what goes on in the hearts of ppl - folk can make a great showing after the flesh or some may just live in quiet desperation.  I would have taken this dear man seriously enough to go over the scriptures and pray with him so he can be sure of his eternal destiny rather than give him some false assurance.    A born again person who is right with God knows they are born again and right with God.  If they don't know this it is a huge red flag - and this man was crying out for help.....     Bill writes: Yes, in Christ in his resurrection, BUT not everyone is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, that comes by way of belief or faith in Jesus Christ. What we call our "conversion experience" does happen in this lifetime, and sometimes this can be a profound and life-altering experience; other times it is not so profound for people who have grown up in the church and spent their lifetimes worshiping the Lord.  I think we are prone to base too much of our "faith" in religious experience and not trained well enough at basing it in the object of that faith: Jesus Christ.   I watched a saintly ninety year old elder of our church break down and weep because he did not know for sure if he had been "born again." He had grown up in the church and could not remember a time that he did not believed in Jesus Christ, yet he had never had one of those earth-shaking conversion experiences that others had had. We, the church, had placed so much emphasis on that "born again experience" that we had misled godly people into doubting their salvation. The weight of the world was upon this man's shoulders, and he could not withstand the weight of it. He was as godly as anyone you would ever meet, had served the Lord faithfully his whole life, yet believe in "spiritual death" and the necessity to be "born again" and thus could not place his finger on a point in his life when he stopped being spiritually dead and started being a born again believer. We did that to him -- not the Lord.