Isn't the world and the things of the world also satan's realm of death? izzy
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:05 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 Are you describing TT to a TEE? One correction "one is living in satan's realm (world and the things of the world) --- ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't see any of this nearly as complicated as everyone is making > it. A "spiritually dead" person is going to hell when he physically dies. He already doesn't "get it" about things of the Spirit. A "spiritually alive" > person is heaven-bound. He understands things of the Spirit. One is > living in satan's realm (death); the other is living in God's (life: "My words are Spirit and Life"). That's the difference. izzy > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 4:42 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 > > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Hi Bill. I have been reading with interest your dialogue with Judy. > The > idea of "spiritual death" has some logical inconsistencies that you > seem > to be pointing out. Your focus on death being a metaphor is making me > think! That's a good thing. :-) Some of the problems I have had over > my > lifetime with the "spiritual death" perspective is the following: > > 1. The body without the spirit is dead, so if the spirit is dead, how > can > one be alive? This assumes, of course, that spiritual death means > that > the spirit is dead. > Jt: when I say dead David I mean dead in the same sense as blessing > vs. > cursing. Someone > Who is cursed is walking in death while they live. This does not mean > that their spirit is literally dead or that they are physically dead > - it > means that if something does not change they will inherit both in the > last day. > > 2. If people were spiritually dead in the Old Testament times, how > did > they write prophecy and such? How does anyone do anything good at all > if > they are dead in their spirit? All good ultimately comes from God, > does > it not, and how can this good come through us except through the > spirit? > Jt: Is what appears to be good outwardly always good and is what is > evil > always look evil ie: if the light within you be darkness (deception) > how > great is that darkness. > > 3. John says that Christ is the light that lighteth every man that > comes > into the world. How can that happen if virtually everyone is > "spiritually > dead"? > Jt: It happens because Jesus is the Creator; he is the one who spoke > the > worlds into existence; and ultimately He was the one who fulfilled > Zechariah 12:1b. As for spiritual death in such a circumstance.. What > does it mean to say that a woman who lives for pleasure is "dead > while > she lives?" > > One way of remedy here is to perceive "spiritual death" as something > that > is less than perfect death. In other words, there is so much darkness > that we might call it being spiritually dead, but that does not mean > complete and total darkness. Of course, if we take this perspective, > then > why not take the same approach in regards to physical death with Adam > and > Eve? I think it was Ireneus who said that they were given over to > death > on that very day. In other words, death began its work, they died > that > very day, but it took time for the full effect of it to be > manifested. > Jt: They lost their "open-line" to God on that day; they experienced > fear > and shame which before this time were unknown to them and not long > after > that their son Cain committed the first murder. Wrong spirit produces > wrong fruit. They had chosen a new spiritual counsellor and it > proceeded > from bad to worse until within a few generations God saw the need to > kill > everyone but one family. > > Another observation I might make is that I think often people use > that > word "spiritually" as a metaphor itself. In other words, when they > think > "spiritually dead" they are really thinking along the lines of dead > metaphorically speaking. > Jt: I have a Noah Webster 1828 dictionary here which tells me a > metaphor > should be just one word, otherwise it would be a similitude rather > than a > metaphor. I don't believe these scriptures are using either myself. > Why > not let scripture say what it says and ask the Holy Spirit for the > correct understanding? Where do you suppose the adversary or the > Strongman builds his structures? What part of the house? He is > spirit > also. Why does scripture speak of the sanctification of the spirit? > All > three can be defiled (body, soul/mind, spirit). Why do some find it > so > easy to take the Godhead and divide it into three parts all dancing > with > each other and yet insist that triune man has to be one entity - a > human > being and that is all. Will we just throw out what we don't > understand; > stay in darkness in these areas and let the devil take the day? > judyt > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you > may know > how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you > have a > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you > may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you > have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
