Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14

[Judith H Taylor]

 

 

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:15:53 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 

I believe that Philip 2:12-13 presents us with the teaching that God is the reason for  our will to do the right thing and our ability to accomplish such   --------------   that this applies to all of mankind since the Reconciliation  (Col 1:17-24).  When I read that "No man comes to me except the Father draws him,"  I think of this Philip passage.   And in John 3:21,  I see this thinking confirmed.  In that passage, we practice the truth and (then) come to the Light.   Christ manifests or reveals that this practice of truth was actually accomplish  "in God."   Before coming to Christ,  I have a relationship of sorts with God.   This is why repentance is so important.   Before repentance, God is a work in me but I am not his partner  --  not a good thing.   After repentance,  I have fellowship  or "joint participation"  with God  (Philip 2:1).  

 

Judy: JD you need to take ALL scripture into consideration. John 3:36 teaches that the wrath of God CONTINUES

to abide on those who do not believe the Son.  I don't get the idea that God is working in them when His wrath

CONTINUES to abide on them.  What would make you believe this??

 

 

Repentance is a change of mind  -  getting things right in our minds  --  a turning around.  When I "receive the Spirit,"  I am accepting a gifted presence already a part of who I am as a result of reconciliation.  In Christ, the works of God (done  even  before I came  into light) are manifested to be the works of God, Himself  (again--John3:21).  Read for yourself and see how this passage (John 3:21) is related to John 3:3  and the other passages I have mentioned. JD

 

Judy:  John you are leaving out great blocks of truth; when I read what you write I get the idea that some spirit

is doing all the work from inside ppl.  However scripture teaches that God only gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Jesus (the "Word")  First ppl must receive the Word and obey which begins with repentance because those who receive His testimony certify that God is true.  Look at the example we have in the first Church:

 

Acts 6:7 "The Word of God increased"

Acts 12:24 "The Word of God grew and multiplied"

Acts 19:20 "Mightily grew the Word of God and prevailed"

 

Why not pray for the Father to reveal God the Word to you?  This is who He was before the "incarnation"

and this is who He is in the book of Acts.  God has promised that His Word will not return void Isaiah 55:11.

Without the truth of His Word - all spiritual activity is suspect.   judyt

 

 

 

 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Clifton <wabbits1234@earthlink.net>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 07:39:37 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14

John, do you see a big difference in the terms "Born again" and "New creature in Christ"?   My own thinking is that it would be hard to be a NEW creature without being born again.
Terry

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 

My argument was quite biblical.  When you want to honestly discuss the issue, let me know.  

This post is not that effort.  

 

JD

 

 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 10:41:47 -0400
Subject: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It is not that we do not or cannot understand. 
Rather, it is that we do understand but reject the message.  

 

jt: This is interesting JD - what's wrong with the message? It's Bible.  You must be Born Again.

Raised from spiritual death to spiritual life IOW by hearing His Voice and not hardening your heart.

No man comes to Christ except the Father draw him  -- 

 

jt: Right!  God draws men by way of the "foolishness of preaching"  They hear God's Word and the Spirit

works in their hard old heart after telling the spirit clouding their mind to "shut up"

God being involved in the life of all who are dealing with the Christ issue. 

 

jt: So what is the Christ issue?  Aside from His Word that is?

Philip 2:13  "...... for it is God at work in you ..." is a statement of fact for us all  ----------   saved and unsaved.  

 

jt: Nonsense. The unsaved have the devil working in them (see Ephesians 2:1)

If we we are "lost," we are so without excuse! 

 

jt: Yes because it is God's will that all come to the knowledge of truth and He will make a way for them to hear.

God in Christ has broken down all the barriers ( read: reconciled all things unto Himself)

 

jt: The above is objective truth.

 

and has a presence within each of us (different from a filling of the Spirit). 

 

jt: The above is not truth at all it is presumption - how is God present in those who reject Him?

The lost reject this reconciliation and God's "draw" within. 

 

jt: The lost have been estranged from the womb and they reject His voice just like Israel did in the wilderness - they harden their hearts and stiffen their necks.

We are probably in agreement  --  but with different words????

 

jt: I don't think so JD - this is a "great gulf" - it's more than just semantics.  We have two different gospels here.