Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
DAVEH: Do you truly believe the LDS Church is not growing, Kevin?
Kevin Deegan wrote:Looks like the official LDS site might have gotten it wrong after all!The Church of Jesus Christ Will Never Be DestroyedSince its restoration in 1830, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has grown rapidly in membership. There are members in nearly every country in the world. The Church will continue to grow. As Christ said, "This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all nations" (Joseph Smith--Matthew 1:31). The Church will never again be taken from the earth. Its mission is to take the truth to every person. Thousands of years ago, the Lord said he would "set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, . . . and it shall stand for ever" (Daniel 2:44).
Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Sounds like it is rife throughout the LDS community, why else would some GET ANGY over statements that Church growth is on a slide? Can you come up with an alternat conclusion?Several readers were so unhappy to read these findings that they cancelled their subscriptions to the newspaper.To us, this all sounds like interesting social science, not something to get angry at the newspaper about. Yet some callers saw the articles as a deliberate swipe at their church. One woman chastised the Herald for being part of the "evil, corrupt media that have led our children astray." Some others thought the articles were discouraging and should not have been printed in a community dominated by Mormons, saying, "You people had better notice who your customers are."
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:So using LDS "Logic"We see without a DOUBT the RCC "MUST BE THE ONE TRUE CHURCH"
DAVEH: You seem to be confusing the facts (of what was posted) to fit your illogical conclusion, Kevin. What Blaine said about the relatively rapid growth of the LDS Church is of no relevance to the size or trueness of the RCC folks.
Kevin Deegan wrote:DAVEH: Why would you think that is LDS logic to assume such, Kevin?bborrow26 Sat, 26 Feb 2005 07:00:52 -0800On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:41:53 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 2/25/2005 5:09:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > The LDS Church will continue to advance and grow, because the people who are minding the store, so to speak, have received their commission from above.> > Blainer) Mormonism, or the religion of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has succeeded to the tune of 11,000,000 + current members, and with a current growth rate of 19.3 % is the fastest growing denomination in the United States and is currently the sixth
largest denomination in the US. This is not failure in any sense, but begins to fulfill revelation given to the Prophet Joseph Smith:Blainer) The figures don't lie. The rate of growth for the Mormon Church exceeds even the Moslems in the US. Zion will flourish, and the Kingdom of God will be established by the Mormon Church. It is just a matter of time.> > BlaineR (Mr. NO-CREDIBILITY) You pulled the switcheroo!! Below is my post that STARTED this "discussion" to begin with. Note, everyone, that Glenn thus far has failed to address the Mormon growth rate. He just wants to talk about the numbers. GLENN, ARE YOU AFRAID TO DISCUSS THE GROWTH RATE OF THE MORMON CHURCH? (19.3 % last year, 2001). This is the second time I have asked that, and so far--zilch for an answer."During the decade of the 1990s, many rapidly-growing churches, including the Adventists, Southern Baptists, Assemblies of God, and numerous Pentecostal groups, reported accelerating growth trends throughout the decade, while The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints experienced persistent trends of decelerating growth."
"After more than a decade of proselyting in Russia with the largest full-time missionary force of any denomination, LDS membership has risen to only 11,000, with a fraction of those members remaining active. The same period has seen the number of active Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia rise to over 120,000, with some 275,000 individuals attending conferences."
"The Assemblies of God are growing at approximately 10% per year, or over three times the growth rate of the LDS Church, while the Seventh-day Adventists report growth two to three times LDS rates at 5.6-8% per year."
"While the Church makes no claims about member activity rates and no official reports of LDS activity rates are published, the Encyclopedia of Mormonism notes, "Attendance at sacrament meeting varies substantially. Canada, the South Pacific, and the United States average between 40 percent and 50 percent. Europe and Africa average about 35 percent. Asia and Latin America have weekly attendance rates of about 25 percentÂ…European LDS activity rates appear to have fallen well below the older 35% figure cited in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism."
"The average missionary in 1989 brought 9.1 people into the church, while in 2000 the average missionary brought 4.6 people into the church. When one accounts for actual activity and retention rates, with the great majority of LDS convert growth occurring in Latin America and other areas with low retention and only 20-25% of convert growth occurring in North America, it can be determined that of the 4.6 persons baptized by the average missionary each year, approximately 1.3 will remain active."
http://home.teleport.com/~packham/growth.htm
The stake mission leader gave a lesson on missionary work that was somewhat frantic.
Apparently, the conversion numbers are slipping drastically. The church is getting the same number of new converts as in 1989, but they are using twice as many missionaries to do it. He actually stated that these numbers indicate that the church is in a state of apostasy. What makes this even more interesting is that he was clearly getting the bulk of his lesson from what he had heard from Area leaders.
He also said that churchwide, temples are operating at 11% of capacity! I was staggered. I would have guessed maybe 30% at the least.
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:DAVEH: Why would you think that is LDS logic to assume such, Kevin? Read through the posts regarding this thread. You will see my (and Blaine's) post was an attempt to bring a little truth, knowledge and accuracy to TT. Your post is apparently an effort to bring a little untruth to TT, as neither of us suggested that the size of the LDS Church reflects its truthfulness.
Kevin Deegan wrote:So using LDS "Logic"Blainerb: Interesting Dave, thanks--I have copied a part of one of the below site addresses for the quick and easy perusal of TTr's:Here's the 2005 list of the largest U.S. denominations:
1. The Catholic Church - 67,259,768
2. Southern Baptist Convention - 16,439,603
3. The United Methodist Church - 8,251,175
4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - 5,503,192
5. The Church of God in Christ - 5,449, 875
6. National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc. - 5,000,000
7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America - 4,984,925
8. National Baptist Convention of America, Inc. - 3,500,000
9. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) - 3,241,309
10. Assemblies of God - 2,729,562
11. African Methodist Episcopal Church - 2,500,000
12. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America - 2,500,000
13. Progressive National Baptist Convention - 2,500,000
14. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (LCMS) - 2,488,936
15. Episcopal Church - 2,320,221
16. Churches of Christ - 1,500,000
17. Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America - 1,500,000
18. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc. - 1,500,000
19. American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A. - 1,433,075
20. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church - 1,432,795
21. United Church of Christ - 1,296,652
22. Baptist Bible Fellowship International - 1,200,000
23. Christian Churches and Churches of Christ - 1,071,616
24. Jehovah's Witnesses - 1,041,030
25. The Orthodox Church in America - 1,000,000
Philip E. Jenks of the National Council of Churches contributed to this story. The 2005 Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches can be ordered at www.electronicchurch.org/order/eorder.In a message dated 7/27/2005 10:54:49 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:DAVEH: Your numbers seem a little low, John. How old are they? Here's one from 3 years ago that is a bit higher......
http://www.religioscope......com/info/notes/2002_020_US_church_stat.htm
........And here is another that is from just a few months ago....
http://news.ucc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=72&Itemid=54
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:FYI ----- The Mormon Church is the 8t largest denom in the US with 2, 787,000 adherents.Churches of Christ in 9th with 2,503,000 members. Within the US, growth rates for both groups are nearly flat line. In foreign countries, however, Mormons have a very strong presence (somewhere around 11 to 13 million) will the Churches of Christ have only a few hundred thousands. I mention C of C because of the association this church has with the beginnings of the Mormon church (IMO).JD-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
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