DAVEH: I did not find that one (post the link if you can find it), but
did run across several instances where the growth rate is stated to be
positive, though less than previous years.....
In fact, according to the church's own accounts, the growth
rate is declining! In 1996 the church reported a growth rate of 4.24%.
In 1999, the growth rate had fallen by 44%, to 2.37%, as reported in
the December 1999 issue of the official church magazine Ensign.
.........and as you posted below......
"The average missionary in 1989 brought 9.1 people into the church,
while in 2000 the average missionary brought 4.6 people into the
church. When one accounts for actual activity and retention rates, with
the great majority of LDS convert growth occurring in Latin America and
other areas with low retention and only 20-25% of convert growth
occurring in North America, it can be determined that of the 4.6
persons baptized by the average missionary each year, approximately
1.3 will remain active."
.........So Kevin, I don't know why you would suggest That
growth has slowed to a trickle, or no growth when the
missionaries alone (not counting the birth rate of LDS folks) is
accounting for about 100,000 per year. That hardly seems like no
growth to me. And if you consider that a trickle,
it seems like a pretty big trickle. I suppose in a few
years we can look again at the numbers the National Council of Churches
stats......
http://www.ncccusa.org/news/050330yearbook.html
..........to see if the LDS Church is in decline as you are
suggesting. Do you suppose it will eventually climb to #4 position,
knocking out the United Methodist Church in the process? Time will
tell....
As for your suggestion about the Church keeping the retention rate
a secret, I'm not sure one can even quantify such data.
Kevin Deegan wrote:
The links stated something to the effect that the LDS Church was
the only one that withheld retention numbers.
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
DAVEH:
I find your perspective on this to be rather interesting, Kevin. I
think you seriously underestimate the strength of the Church, based on
your misinterpretation/misunderstanding of a newspaper article. But,
as before...you will believe what you wish, though it may may be
inaccurate.
BTW......I don't think the LDS Church has kept it's membership
(growth) info confidential.
Kevin Deegan wrote:
I believe that the LDS church was growing quickly a few
years ago. That growth has slowed to a trickle, or no growth. You
must consider the retention rate as of late, but the church holds
certain information secret.
Why do you think some LDS got so upset about the news
articles?
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote: DAVEH:
Do you truly believe the LDS Church is not growing, Kevin?
Kevin Deegan wrote:
Looks like the
official LDS site might have gotten it wrong after all!
The Church of
Jesus Christ Will Never Be Destroyed
Since its restoration in 1830, The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints has grown rapidly in membership. There are
members in nearly every country in the world. The Church will continue to grow. As
Christ said, "This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the
world, for a witness unto all nations" (Joseph Smith--Matthew 1:31).
The Church will never again be taken from the earth. Its mission is to
take the truth to every person. Thousands of years ago, the Lord said
he would "set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the
kingdom shall not be left to other people, . . . and it shall stand for
ever" (Daniel 2:44).
Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Sounds like it is rife throughout the LDS community,
why else would some GET ANGY over statements that Church growth is on a
slide? Can you come up with an alternat conclusion?
Several
readers were so unhappy to read these findings that they cancelled
their subscriptions to the newspaper.
To us, this all sounds like interesting social
science, not something to get angry at the newspaper about. Yet some
callers saw the articles as a deliberate swipe at their church.
One woman chastised the Herald for being part of the "evil, corrupt
media that have led our children astray." Some others thought
the articles were discouraging and should not have been printed in a
community dominated by Mormons, saying, "You people had better notice
who your customers are."
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
So using LDS "Logic"
We see without a DOUBT the RCC "MUST BE THE ONE TRUE
CHURCH"
DAVEH: You seem to be confusing the facts (of what
was posted) to fit your illogical conclusion, Kevin. What Blaine said
about the relatively rapid growth of the LDS Church is of no relevance
to the size or trueness of the RCC folks.
Kevin Deegan wrote:
DAVEH: Why would you think that is LDS
logic to assume such, Kevin?
bborrow26 Sat, 26 Feb 2005 07:00:52 -0800On Fri, 25 Feb 2005
20:41:53 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 2/25/2005
5:09:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > The LDS Church will continue to advance and grow, because the
people who are minding the store, so to speak, have received their
commission from above.
> > Blainer) Mormonism, or the religion of
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has succeeded to the
tune of 11,000,000 + current members, and with a current growth rate
of 19.3 % is the fastest growing denomination in the United States and
is currently the sixth
largest denomination in the US. This is not failure in any sense,
but begins to fulfill revelation given to the Prophet Joseph Smith:
Blainer) The figures don't lie. The rate of
growth for the Mormon Church exceeds even the Moslems in the US. Zion
will flourish, and the Kingdom of God will be established by the
Mormon Church. It is just a matter of time.
> > BlaineR (Mr. NO-CREDIBILITY) You pulled
the switcheroo!! Below is my post that STARTED this "discussion" to
begin with. Note, everyone, that Glenn thus far has failed to
address the Mormon growth rate. He just wants to talk about the
numbers. GLENN, ARE YOU AFRAID TO DISCUSS THE GROWTH RATE OF THE
MORMON CHURCH? (19.3 % last year, 2001). This is the second time I
have asked that, and so far--zilch for an answer.
"During the decade of the 1990s, many
rapidly-growing churches, including the Adventists, Southern Baptists,
Assemblies of God, and numerous Pentecostal groups, reported
accelerating growth trends throughout the decade, while The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints experienced persistent
trends of decelerating growth."
"After more than a decade of proselyting in Russia
with the largest full-time missionary force of any denomination, LDS
membership has risen to only 11,000, with a fraction of those members
remaining active. The same period has seen the number of active
Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia rise to over 120,000, with some 275,000
individuals attending conferences."
"The Assemblies of God are growing at approximately
10% per year, or over three times the growth rate of the LDS Church,
while the Seventh-day Adventists report growth two to three times LDS
rates at 5.6-8% per year."
"While the Church makes no claims about member
activity rates and no official reports of LDS activity rates are
published, the Encyclopedia of Mormonism notes, "Attendance at
sacrament meeting varies substantially. Canada, the South Pacific, and
the United States average between 40 percent and 50 percent. Europe and
Africa average about 35 percent. Asia and Latin America have weekly
attendance rates of about 25 percent…European LDS activity rates appear
to have fallen well below the older 35% figure cited in the
Encyclopedia of Mormonism."
"The average missionary in 1989 brought 9.1 people
into the church, while in 2000 the average missionary brought 4.6
people into the church. When one accounts for actual activity and
retention rates, with the great majority of LDS convert growth
occurring in Latin America and other areas with low retention and only
20-25% of convert growth occurring in North America, it can be
determined that of the 4.6 persons baptized by the average missionary
each year, approximately 1.3 will remain active."
http://home.teleport.com/~packham/growth.htm
The stake mission leader gave a lesson on missionary
work that was somewhat frantic.
Apparently, the conversion numbers are
slipping drastically. The church is getting the same number of
new converts as in 1989, but they are using twice as many missionaries
to do it. He actually stated that these numbers indicate that the
church is in a state of apostasy. What makes this even more interesting
is that he was clearly getting the bulk of his lesson from what he had
heard from Area leaders.
He also said that churchwide, temples are operating
at 11% of capacity! I was staggered. I would have guessed maybe 30% at
the least.
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
DAVEH:
Why would you think that is LDS logic to assume such, Kevin? Read
through the posts regarding this thread. You will see my (and
Blaine's) post was an attempt to bring a little truth, knowledge and
accuracy to TT. Your post is apparently an effort to bring a little
untruth to TT, as neither of us suggested that the size of the LDS
Church reflects its truthfulness.
Kevin Deegan wrote:
So using LDS "Logic"
We see without a DOUBT the RCC "MUST BE THE
ONE TRUE CHURCH"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Blainerb: Interesting Dave, thanks--I have
copied a part of one of the below site addresses for the quick and easy
perusal of TTr's:
Here's the 2005 list of the largest U.S.
denominations:
1. The Catholic Church - 67,259,768
2. Southern Baptist Convention - 16,439,603
3. The United Methodist Church - 8,251,175
4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints - 5,503,192
5. The Church of God in Christ - 5,449, 875
6. National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
- 5,000,000
7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America -
4,984,925
8. National Baptist Convention of America,
Inc. - 3,500,000
9. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) - 3,241,309
10. Assemblies of God - 2,729,562
11. African Methodist Episcopal Church -
2,500,000
12. National Missionary Baptist Convention
of America - 2,500,000
13. Progressive National Baptist Convention
- 2,500,000
14. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod
(LCMS) - 2,488,936
15. Episcopal Church - 2,320,221
16. Churches of Christ - 1,500,000
17. Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America -
1,500,000
18. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World,
Inc. - 1,500,000
19. American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A.
- 1,433,075
20. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion
Church - 1,432,795
21. United Church of Christ - 1,296,652
22. Baptist Bible Fellowship International -
1,200,000
23. Christian Churches and Churches of
Christ - 1,071,616
24. Jehovah's Witnesses - 1,041,030
25. The Orthodox Church in America -
1,000,000
Philip E. Jenks of the National Council of
Churches contributed to this story. The 2005 Yearbook of American &
Canadian Churches can be ordered at www.electronicchurch.org/order/eorder.
In a message dated 7/27/2005 10:54:49 P.M.
Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: Your numbers seem a little low, John. How old are
they? Here's one from 3 years ago that is a bit higher......
http://www.religioscope.......com/info/notes/2002_020_US_church_stat.htm
........And here is another that is from just a few months ago....
http://news.ucc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=72&Itemid=54
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
FYI
----- The Mormon Church is the 8t largest denom in the US with 2, 787,000 adherents.
Churches of Christ in 9th with 2,503,000
members. Within the US, growth rates for both groups are nearly flat
line. In foreign countries, however, Mormons
have a very strong presence
(somewhere around 11 to 13 million) will the Churches of Christ have
only a few hundred thousands. I mention C of C because of the
association this church has with the beginnings of the Mormon church (IMO).
JD
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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