Re: [TruthTalk] The Humanity of Jesus

[Judy Taylor]

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:30:46 -0400 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Judy wrote: Jesus' body was a temple of the Holy Spirit   > So is our body...   jt: Difference is - He came into this world "holy" and as he grew he waxed strong in spirit (Luke 2:60) - wheras we came into this world with a very different inheritance.  We are born with an inheritance in sin and trained in a compromised system so at best ours is a compromised temple with enemies on the land which are diven out a little at a time as we grow stronger spiritually (ie in grace and in the knowledge of Him by faith).   Judy wrote: and the other spirit had nothing in Him (John 14:30) And the other spirit has nothing in us when we are in Christ...   jt: Look at the state of the Church and tell me that with a straight face David. Judy wrote: Biology aside, if the prince of this world had been given a hook in Him as He has legally in the rest of us He would not have been fit to be a sacrifice for the whole world.   > The prince of this world did not have any hook in him.  In this > conversation, you constantly confuse the word "flesh" with the > concepts of "spirit" and "soul."   jt: I am not confusing them David; you and Gary are the ones who accuse me of dualism and say man operates as one.  I'm with you. If Jesus had sin in his spirit or soul, or in his heart or mind, then the  devil would have had a hook in him.  The only entrance to our flesh  that the devil has is through our spirit and our mind.  He is a spiritual  being.  We must be open to him and grant him access, then he can gain access to our flesh.  The sin nature which dwells in the flesh has nothing to do with the devil.  It has to do with us.  The only way it becomes involved with the devil is when we grant the devil access to our flesh through our spirit.   jt: I agree the devil must gain access spiritually since he is a spirit being; but look at our example in Genesis 3; all he has to do to have legal access is to get us to turn from God's Truth and believe his lie. Following this like A&E we become children of wrath, our spirits are subject to flesh and we are enemies of God. Eph 2.   There are several sources of sin in this world: 1. The flesh, through genes inherited from our ancestors. 2. The spirits of this world which operate in the air (our  atmosphere). 3.  Our spirit, IF we have in the past given heed to seducing  spirits and defiled ourselves through the action of sin. 4.  Our soul, IF we have defiled it by carnal activities and the  lust of our  flesh.   jt: David the old man (flesh nature) is sin in and of itself and this is why we must become a living sacrifice and die to it, we don't need any of the above to make us a sinner; those just add to and enhance the situation.  There is none righteous, no not one.  We and our own children are natural born liars because of who our father is when we come into this world. Jesus was not affected by any of these sources except for number 1,  his flesh.  The devil had nothing in him.    jt: I have to disagree David. I believe that holy means holy and in His case there is no exception.  In our case salvation by faith is present-progressive We are called holy by faith.  He is the real thing.  Our example.   When we say he was from above and heavenly, we are talking about his spirit, not his flesh.    jt: His flesh was also holy, created in Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit, the third member of the Godhead, look at what the angel told Mary "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called The Son of God" - so where is the qualifier other than in your mind David?   We know his flesh was of the earth.  He was killed and buried.  The body he received at his resurrection was a heavenly body, but his body he had prior to this was an earthly body just like ours.    jt: No it wasn't  His body was also holy and God did not allow it to see corruption like that of everybody else, including us.   If he hit his hand with a hammer while working, it hurt, bruised, bled, etc.  If someone stabbed him with a knife, he felt it and he bled.  If he did not eat, he got hungry.    jt: He had human limitations so far as hunger, tiredness, and possibly injury but this has nothing to do with sin or the curse that comes through sin.   He experienced sickness (Isaiah 53:3) and he struggled in life like everybody else.    jt: I don't believe he experienced sickness. There is no obvious record in scripture if one does not wrest words.  I don't believe death could lay hold on him before He willingly layed down His life and sickness is the curse that comes from sin. Demons and spirits of infirmity knew Him and asked if he had come to torment them before the time. He cast them out by the finger of God and took authority over death more than once.     He grew in knowledge and wisdom and had to learn obedience, not because he was disobedient, but because he grew and matured like everyone else.    jt: Yes he had to grow and mature from a child to an adult we are told "Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good" (Isa 7:15) which is really important.  Jesus walked in perfect spiritual discernment whereas we tend to perish for lack of knowledge.    God in heaven does not have this learning and growing process.  God in  heaven cannot be tempted with evil, but God in the flesh could be tempted  with evil.  Why?  Because of the nature of the flesh, as explained in  Romans 7.   jt: Only he wasn't a partaker of the "nature of the flesh" which is fallen. He was "holy" from birth (which was supernatural) and The Son of God. He had the nature of His Father, just as we are born with the nature of our father.   All of these things are spiritually discerned, so spend some time in  prayer considering these things.  The Holy Spirit is a better teacher than  any of  us, and I suspect you are more open to hear Him than to hear me.   Thanks David, I hear you, judyt