John wrote: > I do not believe you. Full of Doubt... <sigh> I know.
John wrote: > but if you do not want ot give a concise statement > of your belief relating to what I have written, I think > I understand why. Asking for a concise statement of my belief is fine, but that is not what you asked me for. You asked me to correct you. I cannot correct that which is unintelligible. In concise form, here is a statement of my belief relating to what you have written. I believe Adam and Eve were real people. I believe Adam was created as Genesis says, from the dust of the ground, and I believe that Eve was created from a rib taken from his side. I do not believe that we are genetically descended from Apes, which are supposed to have descended from reptiles, which are supposed to have descended from amphibians, which are supposed to have descended from fish, which are supposed to have descended from invertebrate aquatic creatures, which are supposed to have descended from some simple single celled organism, which is supposed to have been created through some undemonstrated process of abiogensis. I believe that Adam and Eve were not created as mortal creatures. They as well as the rest of creation ate only plants, not animals. Animals did not kill each other for food; hence, there was no death. A time came when Adam and Eve sinned. Eve, having been deceived by Satan, joined him in his rebellion against Yahweh. Adam, in his love for Eve, followed her. This brought death upon him that very day. I believe that drastic changes took place, and began taking place at a rapid rate, within his physical body. The chemistry of his body changed, as did the chemistry of the rest of creation. Evolutionary processes began shaping the destiny of both man, animals, and plants at a drastic rate, much higher than the levels presently observed. Those processes quickly selected flesh which exhibited behavior that was selfish, propagating those genes that yielded sinful behavior into the population of man. For example, righteous Able's descendants were cut off by Cain, yet Cain's descendants propagated and flourished in the earth. To make matters worse, angels joining in the rebellion against God began producing children by cohabitating with women of human kind. This introduced additional genetic material and contributed to the process of man's flesh becoming exceedingly sinful. The world became so bad, that God had to destroy it with a flood. I believe that only 8 souls survived this flood. The flood brought huge environmental changes to the earth. Prior to the flood, the atmospheric conditions were much different. There had been no rain. Seasons were much more mild. Soon after the flood, in the days of Pelag, the continents split apart and rapidly moved apart, creating oceans between the land masses. The lifespan of man rapidly declined in response to these environmental changes. Evolutionary processes, once again, took off at a rapid rate, evidenced by the production of giant men like the Anakims. Such again directed the flesh toward more selfish / sinful behavior. Therefore, as we come to our time, I have an understanding that behavior which comes from the flesh is inherently selfish, and, therefore, inherently sinful. The spirit, on the other hand, has a lamp of God within it, a spark of the Logos. That lamp is deadened, however, by the usurpation of the flesh. As we get older and our mind is able to begin to hear the voice of the conscience and hear the Logos actually articulated by those who have been touched more readily by Him, our spirit begins to respond to that, if we are inclined with a love toward the Logos. On the other hand, if we hate the Logos within our heart, we flee from such. At the same time, the Holy Spirit is at work calling those whom he wills, and at some point, many of us find ourselves experiencing a new birth, not a birth of the flesh, but a birth of the Spirit. The weight of our sins is lifted, our conscience is suddenly clear and alive. We slowly but surely begin to apprehend the things of God's kingdom. This leads us to pursue the kingdom that we might possess it. In order to pursue the kingdom, we understand that righteousness is required. The flesh, on the other hand, has no interest in such things. Therefore, we must completely surrender ourselves unto the Logos and trust in Him with all of our hearts. This necessitates ignoring the flesh, and even considering it dead. It means putting down those temptations that would lead us toward that which is against the Logos, and embracing all that is about the Logos. So is born the spiritual man, the one who denies himself and his flesh, and follows Jesus Christ with his entire being, looking forward to the time when his flesh will die and he will be reborn in the flesh as he has already been reborn in the spirit. So concerning my relationship to Adam, it is the flesh. My body ultimately was inherited from him, with many changes caused by mutations and evolutionary factors that have heightened its inclination toward iniquity. What I inherit from Adam is an almost worthless body of sin. Concerning my relationship to Christ, it is spiritual. I have inherited from Christ his spirit, that I might conquer and live above the impulses of my physical body. I no longer serve my flesh, but I serve the spirit of the risen Christ. While I perceive myself to be genetically related to Adam and descended from him, I do not see myself as having any spiritual inheritance from him whatsoever. On the other hand, in regards to Jesus Christ, I see myself to have spiritual inheritance from him, but I do not see myself as having any physical inheritance from him at this time. Soon to come, I expect to inherit from him a physical body like his that is actually so different from this one that I must call it a spiritual body. By spiritual body, I do not mean that it is ghostly or without coporeal substance, but rather that it is pure and fashioned perfectly for the spirit, unlike my present body which is corrupted and can only temporarily connect with my spirit. You asked for a concise statement, so I will stop here. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." 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