Debbie wrote: > ... I do think sometimes we misread circumstances so > as to ask for something that seems good but that he > in his greater wisdom decides not to give us, giving us > something else instead. Paul, in the famous example, > asked more than once for the "thorn" (whatever that > was) to be removed. I'm sure he did so in good faith > and not foolishly. But it was not removed. Instead, he > was given something better: grace to deal with the "thorn", > as well as a profound and practical understanding of how > God's strength is perfected in our weakness.
The "thorn" we are told was a messenger of Satan who buffeted Paul. The context tells us that he did this through persecutions whereever he went. God will not remove us from those who persecute us. He gives us grace to endure it and go through it. Debbie wrote: > I disagree with the idea that if this sequence of events > ever arises in one's prayer life, or if ever one does not > know what to pray for, that is a sign of spiritual infancy. Why? Debbie wrote: > ... I was taking a bit of a licence with the stone-bread > illustration for the sake of the allusion to Jesus' speech ... > ... Does that make sense to you at all? Yes, it does, and in certain contexts, I don't have a problem with it. But I think the misunderstandings that might arise from different contexts warrants some comments and discussion about it, as we have now done. Debbie wrote: > What do you think is the "use" of prayer or faith? > I see faithful prayer as being more than just asking > for things and "getting them right". It is more about > fellowship and trust/surrender. Prayer is a process > and often changes how we see things, over the course > of a long time. But I'm sure you believe this too. I think > we must acknowledge that there are mysterious aspects > to prayer. If you think that's a copout, so be it. I certainly agree that prayer changes us, but the prayer of faith also brings God's will into the reality in which we now live. Jesus went about healing the sick, proving this to be God's will. Why did others not heal the sick? It was God's will. The answer is: no faith. God's will is not carried forth in this world because we are filled with doubt and unbelief. We weary God out with our doubt and unbelief. Debbie wrote: > I know Scripture teaches us to pray in faith. What do > you understand by that? Whatever it is, it doesn't make > God into a slot-machine. Faith works much better than a slot-machine, I agree. :-) Debbie wrote: > Nor do I think it entitles us to say to people who > didn't receive what they prayed for that they must > not have prayed in faith. In some cases, why not? Jesus said that if we believe what we pray for, we shall have it (Mark 11:24). In Matthew 10, we read about how Jesus anointed his disciples to cast out devils. Later, we read in Matthew 17 about how they failed to cast out the devil in one particular case, they asked Jesus, "why couldn't we cast him out"? Jesus said, "Because of your unbelief..." (Mat. 17:20). I think Jesus was entitled to say that, and we might likewise be entitled to say that to people in many situations. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
