I stole the use of the word "baloney" from your mentor, DM. It is his hands who are unclean.
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:56:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] God is a relational God: Father, Son, Spirit
Using your own word JD, Baloney!
Jesus left us an example that we should follow in His steps.
His steps were one of a son who walked in perfect obedience to the Father.
Paul's observation in Romans 3 is that of unregenerate men outside of Christ.
He gives the Holy Spirit to all those who "obey Him" (Hebrews 5:9) and those
who are regenerated in Christ and who call Him Lord want to "obey"
On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:25:52 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Absolutely. But He is not speaking of a perfect obedience because, He, too, believes that there are"none who are righteousn, no not one."Jd
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 07:40:32 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] God is a relational God: Father, Son, Spirit
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Why do you call Me Lord........................when you will not obey?Do you really think you are making a point by pretending that my presentation is legalism? You cannot be that ignorant. It is legalism by definition, that preaches compliance with the Law in order to continue salvation. Get it? Obeying the law for the purposes of salvation is legalism. Not obeying the law for purposes of salvation is not legalism.Your exegetical argument, such as it is, is beyond weak.My presentation my be off base. We all suffer under that possibility. But there are no unsupported assumptions in my presentation. None.I say that grace gives one salvation apart from anything one does in terms of obeying the Law. The importance, here, is that if we are saved apart from our obedience, we are saved in spite of our disobedience. The purpose and place of obedience has nothing to do with getting things right with God. It is only and always a demonstration of the God within. We are saved and counted as pure before we act. The glory goes to God in Christ. That is not a loophole, David. You need to leave the ministry if you disagree with this very basic bibilical consideration. Be not many of you teachers is something you need to take a little more serious. May I suggest a sabbatical until you come to a full and complete understanding of unmerited grace, justification by the substitutionary consideration of faith for right living, and our passive involvement in "getting saved." Obedience is important, but it is the cart, not the horse.I am always open to meaningful discussion.JD========================================================================
Jesus
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