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Actually, Bill, English does not have a middle voice, so your example below
is only an approximation. I think this is important to keep in mind, less
we be overly dogmatic about how a particular text should
read.
Some homework for you: how would you be able to distinguish between
middle and passive voice in Heb. 10:14?
David M.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:31
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
corrector/revisor
Kevin wrote: As anyone can see adding BEING changes NOT JUST the MOOD but
the whole MEANING! But that is the desired effect, just you are not supposed
to know.
No, Kevin, "being" does not affect the "MOOD" of
the verb; it affects its VOICE.
- Active voice: The subject of the statement (or
clause) performs the action of the verb; e.g., Kevin fed the
children.
- Middle voice: The subject of the statement
performs the action of the verb upon him- or her- or itself; e.g., Kevin fed
himself.
- Passive voice: Someone or something other
than the subject of the statement performs the action of the verb;
e.g. Kevin is being fed by the children.
Hagiazomenous is a participle in the present tense and the passive voice; it
functions as the accusative (or direct object) of the statement; it
is masculine and it is plural (The accusative in this verse are those
whom Christ "has perfected forever"). The present tense indicates that the
action (to sanctify) is presently taking place; the passive voice indicates
that the action is being performed by someone other than the accusative;
i.e., someone other than those who have been perfected; hence the
translation: "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are
being sanctified."
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:34
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
corrector/revisor
Well my point was the word is at it's root Sanctify
The mood attaches a ING or ED making it sanctified or
sanctifying.
The WORD for BEING is NOT in the text, just in someones theology!
It has been inserted in a very few of the more corrupt and newest
Translations
As anyone can see adding BEING changes NOT JUST the MOOD but the whole
MEANING! But that is the desired effect, just you are not supposed to
know.
I bet the RCC translations read this way because that would be
desirable for their theology
Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hagiazomenous verb participle present passive accusative
masculine plural [Friberg]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005
5:52 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
corrector/revisor
What is the greek word in the text, that is to BE
translated into "BEING" in hebrews 10:14? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They are not "being perfected." They are being
sanctified. I believe that "sactification" is the work of God within the
believer -- its finale is expressed [in part] in a visible difference
(holiness) between "us" and "them." In this example, we
are passively involved to the glory of God. Perfection, in this scripture, is a done
deal -- Him dying ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME for
us.
JD -----Original Message----- From:
Kevin Deegan < openairmission@yahoo.com> To:
[email protected]Sent: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:17:39 -0800
(PST) Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/ revisor
KJV For by one
offering he hath perfected for ever them that are
sanctified.
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968,
1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman
Foundation For by one offering He has perfected
for all time those who are sanctified. Youngs Literal translation for by one offering
he hath perfected to the end those sanctified
ASV For by one offering he hath perfected for
ever them that are sanctified.
NKJV For by one offering He has perfected forever
those who are being sanctified.
NIV because by one sacrifice he
has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
If Christ's offering gives eternal perfection, as the first
half of the verse claims, why does the rest of the verse say that we
are BEING 'perfected'?
Dean Moore <cd_moore@earthlink.net>
wrote:
cd: see the Bottom of
page.
----- Original Message -----
To: [email protected]
Sent: 11/21/2005 10:08:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
corrector/revisor
Since the theme has been that
of perfection, I thought I would keep it going with a look at
Hebrews 10.14. The KJV says, "For by one offering he
hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." A cursory
reading of this verse may leave one with the impression that the
"perfected" are those whose sanctification is complete:
they are, after all, "sanctified," aren't
they? Well, not if one's concern is with holding true to
the "pure" word of God as set forth in the "Received Text."
In the Greek this participle is a present tense in the
passive voice. If one were desiring to reflect that voice
in his translation and thereby hold true to the grammar and intent
of the "majority text," this participle would
best be translated as "those who are being
sanctified," thereby reflecting a sanctification which is passive (i.e.., the action is being pe rformed by
someone other than the subject) and not yet complete. Hence according to this, Christ has
perfected forever (a completed action), not those who are
presently sanctified (also a completed action), but those who
are in the process of being sanctified: a
fairly significant difference, it seems to me.
Bill
So this is an example
of how the KJV is in error
Bill?
IMO the error is with your understanding rather than
with the text of the KJV
translation. You have read something into the text that is
not there and have made a straw man to knock down. The
word sanctification does not necessarily mean an action being
performed; the same word is used in 1 Cor 7:14 for an unbelieving wife who
is sanctified (set apart, consecrated) by the faith of her
husband. In this sense "sanctified" means something entirely
different from what you describe. So IOW "By one offering Jesus has perfected for ever
them that are set apart, consecrated (or
sanctified)."
I have a huge banner that says the same thing you
banner say on 1 John 2:4-I will send you a picture of it sis
:-)
judyt
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments
is a liar (1 John
2:4)
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