DAVEH: I want to thank you for sharing your thoughts with me, despite
I'm sure that you really don't think I understand your perspective.
Let me say that I understand what you are saying very well, Terry. I
just don't think you understand my question (about the reason), as it
is based upon my biases formed due to my LDS beliefs. I really don't
view God as being so egotistical that he needs our love simply for
selfish reasons. He does not need to test us, as he knows us better
than we do. While I do believe it is important for us to take the test
(so to speak) for our own benefit, that is not the only reason God has
placed us here IMHO.
I do agree with you about needing to obey......for our own good.
And, you are right....disobedience does not make us stronger. As we
can see from A&E's disobedience, it did have a detrimental effect
on their existence. However, sometimes one has to make difficult
choices. IMO, A&E were in that situation.
It is not my desire to argue over this, Terry. We just have
different beliefs about our purpose for being here.....and I appreciate
you sharing yours with me. In my (tonight's) response to Lance's post
of a few days ago, I'll try to answer some of the questions I imagine
you might have.
Terry Clifton wrote:
I truly wish you could see this ,Dave, because it is important to our
understanding. The tree was there for a reason. God could have
programmed every creature to behave exactly as He wanted them to, but
He did not. He even gave angels a choice. He wants us to come to Him
out of love, just as He comes to us out of love. To do that, we must
make a choice. We CHOOSE to love Him. We show that love by living to
please Him. We show our SELFishness by doing what we want to do. We
do not need to disobey to be stronger. We need to obey, for our own
good.
You do not keep your wife in a bubble, but you also do not tell your
wife to go out and play around with drugs or catch aids so that she can
be more resistant to these things. ( I use your wife here because I do
not know if you have children or other family. )
Dave Hansen wrote:
God's desire was for them to remain pure and innocent, just as
would be
the desire of any father for his children.
DAVEH: I probably shouldn't intrude on Blaine's discussion with you,
Terry. But, it seems to me that God could easily have kept A&E pure
and innocent, had he wanted to do so. For instance, he could
either have kept Satan out of the Garden of Eden, or he could have not
placed the tree of knowledge of good and evil there. Or....he could
simply have not commanded them not to partake. But he didn't do any
of those things. IMO, God wanted A&E to transgress for a reason.
FWIW.....While it may be noble to want to keep one's children pure
and innocent, a loving parent who overly protects their children
will end up with kids acutely susceptible to the ills of the world. I
see it similar to communicable illnesses. You could raise your kid in
a bubble and he would live a germ/virus free life. But once he enters
the real world, he would be extremely vulnerable to catching a slew of
nasty bugs. Isn't it much better to allow your kid be exposed to such
hazards so that he can become inoculated against the ravages in the
strength of his youth than allow such illnesses to eventually attack
later in life when one is perhaps more vulnerable? I see that somewhat
as an analogy to the tree knowledge of good and evil. I hope that
makes a little sense, Terry. (Though I'm sure some TTers will take
exception.) FTR....I don't think that is the sole reason for the
tree though.
It is obvious that God did not expect his creations to remain
pure and innocent, and he knew that they would not remain so in the
situation he placed them. But it was necessary for them to go through
that process for a specific reason, as I don't believe God was just
wishfully hoping they would remain pure and innocent.
I do appreciate you sharing your belief about it though, Terry.
Terry Clifton wrote:
God's desire was for them to remain pure and innocent, just
as
would be
the desire of any father for his children. The tree was there to
give
them a choice. We always have a choice to make. If eating the fruit
of that tree gave you the ability to know good from evil, what else
would you call it?
==================================================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
In a message dated 12/5/2005 6:15:11 A.M. Mountain
Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes: Just the facts, Dave. Fact one: Adam and Eve did sin.
Fact two: God hates sin.
Fact three: Getting people to sin is the top priority of Satan.
It's over. We know who to blame. Nothing to discuss.
Blainerb: If it is all so cut and
dried,
then answer this question: Why was the sinful fruit hanging on a tree
called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil?
And,
another
question--why would God not want them to partake of the fruit of that
tree?
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