Hmm, good points, Kevin, but I doubt there is really a discrepancy or
contradiction, otherwise how are you going to explain the agony of
Gethsemene? What he suffered on the cross was more physical, which lead to
his death--but there obviously was the agony of Gethsemene, wherein he suffered
for the sins of mankind, to such an extent as to come just short of
dying. I am not sure why dying had to take place on the cross, eventually,
unless it has something to do with overcoming death--which had to be done in
order to overcome the effects of Adam's transgression and fall, wherein death
was brought into the world. That would make sense to me--but let's face
it, the entire matter of his being able to reconcile man with God after the fall
of Adam which brought sin and
death into the world was a great miracle. I am not sure
any man fully comprehends it. We see in part through the glass darkly now,
but someday we will see more clearly, hopefully.
In a message dated 12/16/2005 1:29:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Forgiveness is available because of the atoning sacrifice
of the Great Jehovah. Forgiveness is available because Christ the Lord sweat great drops of
blood in Gethsemane as he bore the incalculable weight of the
sins of all who ever had or ever would repent. Forgiveness is available
because "God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the
sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to
the power of his deliverance." (Alma 7:13.) (The Messiah Series, Salt
Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Company, 1978-82)
Encyclopedia of Mormonism
... For Latter-day Saints, Gethsemane was the scene of Jesus'
greatest agony, even surpassing that which he suffered on the
cross, an understanding supported by Mark's description of
Jesus' experience (Mark 14:33-39).
... The evidence for Jesus' extreme agony in
Gethsemane is buttressed by a prophecy in the Book of Mormon and a
statement by the resurrected Savior recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants.
About 125 B.C., a Book of Mormon king, Benjamin, recounted in an important
address a prophecy of the coming messiah spoken to him by an angel during the
previous night. Concerning the Messiah's mortal experience, the angel declared
that "he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and
fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for
behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for
the wickedness and the abominations of his people" (Mosiah 3:7). The
Doctrine and Covenants gives the following poignant words of the
resurrected Jesus: "Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that
they might not suffer if they would repent; …which suffering caused myself,
even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at
every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit" (D&C 19:16,
18).
Modern LDS leaders have emphasized that Jesus'
most challenging experience came in Gethsemane. Speaking in a general
conference of the Church in 1982, Marion G. Romney, a member of the First
Presidency, observed that Jesus suffered "the pains of all men, which he did,
principally, in Gethsemane, the scene of his great agony"
(Ensign 12 [May 1982]:6). Church President Ezra Taft Benson wrote that
"it was in
Gethsemane that Jesus took on Himself the sins of the
world, in Gethsemane that His pain was equivalent to the
cumulative burden of all men, in Gethsemane that He descended below all
things so that all could repent and come to Him" (Benson, p. 7).
(Encyclopedia of Mormonism, edited by Daniel H. Ludlow, New York:
Macmillan Publishing Company, 1992, p. 542)
This is in direct contradiction to the bible which
says
Romans 5:10 when we were enemies, we
were reconciled to God by the death of his
Son.
Col. 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to
reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in
earth, or things in heaven.
Col. 2:13-14 And you, being dead in
your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together
with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of
ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of
the way, nailing it to his cross;
1 Cor. 1:18 For the preaching of
the cross is to them that perish foolishness;
but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Blainerb: Kevin, you quoted the passage in the D&C where the doctrine of the
garden is taught. Now you are asking where it was
taught? It all began in the garden. He
suffered there , "even unto death." Did you miss that part or
something?
In a message dated 12/15/2005 5:45:54 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The Holy Bible is the authority.
The bible does not teach any such thing
As a Matter of fact where does the BoM or
D&C teach such?????
In a message dated 12/15/2005 8:47:52 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jesus Christ did not ATONE
for our sins by suffering in the
Garden
Thanks Kevin, we were waiting for the final word from your Royal
Highness . . . Now we know the truth because you said
it--What greater authority can we have, than Kevin of TT?
Blainerb
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