IMO, yes you are as to the former (Scripture) but, not the latter ('works')
L
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: December 30, 2005 09:50
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] apostles and prophets
Hi John. I was not sure that you were the one who wrote that piece in the
beginning, which is why I spoke about the "author." It is a very common
doctrine among scholars and theologians. I offer a few more comments
below.
David Miller wrote:
The idea that the Scriptures were being recorded,
and this suddenly stopped when John died, is bogus.
Men of God wrote and this kind of writing was done
before John and after John. Hundreds of years later,
some of these writings were canonized as Scripture.
John wrote:
You got me, here. I have no idea what you are
talking about, unless you late date some of the NT
scritpures. Wouldn't surprise me.
I'm talking about how there were many writings that were reverenced and
read
in the churches during the first 300 years after Christ ascended into
heaven. For example, there were writings such as Clement's Epistle to the
Corinthians, and the Shepherd of Hermas, and the Epistle of Barnabas. The
early churches did not suddenly have a complete "Bible" when John wrote
Revelation. The viewpoint that one must be an apostle or directly
appointed
by an apostle to write Scripture is not accurate, neither is the viewpoint
that the apostles are the only ones who did miracles, and those upon whom
they directly laid hands. There is NO Biblical basis for such viewpoints.
Such viewpoints are basically modern inventions.
David Miller wrote:
Most of the apostles left us no Scripture at all, including
the chief apostle, Jesus Christ himself.
John wrote:
true. And I am not saying that they all did.
The point is that if only a small fraction of all the apostles did write
Scripture, then the primary work of apostles was not writing Scripture.
The
reason for making Scripture their task or miracles their task is to
relegate
their office to the past. It is a modern form of apostolic persecution.
The line of thinking is that if we show their function no longer
necessary,
then their office is no longer necessary. Thereby, modern apostles are
immediately cut off from the body of Christ. It is done by definition
rather than sound argument, much like the way Creationists are cut out of
science.
My perspective is that the primary work of apostles was oral, not written.
Just like Jesus Christ. Therefore, there is a need for their ministry to
continue and there is no Biblical justification for supposing that they
died
out in the first century.
John wrote:
You have a problem with "under the tutelage
of the apostles"?? I beleive Mark was supervised
by Peter.
What happened was that Mark, like Stephen, Barnabas, and Luke, were among
those who LEFT JESUS in John 6:66. There is evidence that Peter helped
bring Mark back and Paul helped bring Luke back. Yes, Mark was mentored
by
Peter, but your effort to draw attention to this fact is only done to
salvage your theory that only apostles wrote Scripture. You even imply
that
perhaps Peter dictated to Mark what to write in his gospel.
Following are the steps you take to make your case:
1. Narrow the topic from the Bible to only the NT.
2. Narrow the topic further by showing how most of the NT was written by
apostles.
3. Argue that the part of the NT that was not written by apostles was
written by those under the tutelage of apostles.
4. Reject historical data that is contrary to your philosophical
perspective on the basis of it simply being untrustworthy.
5. Conclusion: the apostles were the ones responsible for the NT.
6. Only apostles and those directly appointed by them did miracles.
7. Conclusion: the writing of Scripture and the performing of miracles
ended when the apostle John died at the end of the first century.
Am I the only one on this list that has problems with this line of
reasoning? Do I really have to spell out the problems here?
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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