Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ as the incarnate God

[knpraise]

Thanks, Dean

 

jd

 

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 

 

 

 

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To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: 1/6/2006 11:43:47 PM

Subject: Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ as the incarnate God

couple of thoughts, Dean.  I do not think we disagree at all on point #4.  The union that is the being we know as Jesus  (Son of God, Son of Man) is not possible without the function of humility   (Philip 2) and that is what you are talking bout at #4.   You make a timely addition to what I said.    I fully agree with you on this.  Your comment at #5  -- could you explain this. 

 

 

5.  John - chapter one - teaches us that the Logos and  Jesus, the Son, are one and the same:  "He was in the world  (incarnation !!) and the world was made by Him and the world did not know Him." 

 

 cd: I agree with this towards a hint of the "word" of St. John1 being more than just a son as 1;1 shows Christ's Deity as God .

# cd: I seemed to be trying to put the placement of your mentioned "the Son" closer towards v.1 being God-to support you faith as Christ being God. Regardless, we are stating the same conclusion.

 

 

 I think I see your point, but not sure.  At #6, there are those who believe that He was a son of God as we are.  This confession of Peter's lays taht to rest because the confession and the truth of the confession are the product of revelation  (flesh  and  blood has not revealed   ......)   If Jesus is only a son ,  revelation is not necessary.  I beleive that "Son of God" meant that He was God.  

 

cd: I view the word "Son" as a directional meaning pointing to God-so yes the same truth has prevailed in us both-past the worldly deception all men suffer(ed) from-may God receive the praise.

 

 

 

 

1.  Matt 1:23 gives us the word "Immanuel" as a name for Jesus.  Most significantly, the Apostle Matthew gives us the meaning of this word,  an apostolic definition, if you will   -----------   God with us.   This single sentence should end the controversry, but, of course, people will choose to follow their bias.

 

cd: On this I am in total agreement John.

 

2.  Secondly,  Col 1:19-20 tells us that Christ reconciled all thing UNTO HIMSELF.  If Christ were only the representative of God,  there would be no value in having drawn all things, on the earth and in the heavens unto Himself.  This passage makes sense only as one admits to the deity of the incarnate Christ  -- we should not forget that the act of reconciliation was performed in the body of His flesh. 

cd: On this I am in agreement as Jesus flooded the earth and was the great" I Am" that Moses spoke to in the burning bush. Christ is also seen as the Captain of the Lord of Hosts in Joshua 5 :13-15. ( Note that no Angelic being ever allowed this type of worshiping to happen due in my opinion to Godly fear).

 

3.  John 17:5 establishes the fact that the Son shared the glory of the Father before the foundations of the world,  estalishing His eternity as the Son. 

 

cd: Again we agree. 

 

4.  In view of the fact that "Only begotten" is a term that actually means "only unique" and has nothing to do with the birth or appointment of Christ,  there is no biblical hint that Christ became the Son of God.   He is, therefore,  the eternal Son,  never becoming  --  always being. 

 

cd: There is a shade of disagreement here as I view Christ as taking on a subjective role while a man-with all the frailties of a man-while in the form of man. Yet not forgetting the Glory/ Honor he held with the Father before the foundation of the world.In that earthly form he showed strong tears and crying before God and was heard in that He feared God Hebrews 5:7. He is also shown as the Lord almighty in Rev 1:8 so the son ship role did/is/will end(ed) to total equality.

 

5.  John - chapter one - teaches us that the Logos and  Jesus, the Son, are one and the same:  "He was in the world  (incarnation !!) and the world was made by Him and the world did not know Him." 

 

 cd: I agree with this towards a hint of the "word" of St. John1 being more than just a son as 1;1 shows Christ's Deity as God .

 

6.  Matt 16:16  has Peter confessing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God,"  a wonderful statement that looses its vaule if it means "thou are the Christ , the Holy Representative of the living God." 

 

cd: On this I strongly agree as to be anything else -such as a prophet-is to make Christ a liar-for he said "I am" and the Jews clearly understood this to mean  equal with God as they sought to kill him. King Nebuchadnezzar make this same claim and was struck with  insanity for 7 yrs. I hope I am not confusion anyone-if so push for the explanation. Bill if you were asking for something else or more please clarifly.

 

Hoping to help. 

 

jd