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----- Original Message -----
Sent: January 15, 2006 09:23
Subject: RE: Fw: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
Lance, I think David may be right about regularly posting
to TT the remarks I make to you about forwarded messages that I find
interesting. I'm genuinely honoured by your judgment that they are worth
sharing, and I don't mind people reading them. But if I then become part of the
dialogue with those people, it is a problem in that I am not actually on TT
(and don't want to be)! It creates an accountability that I can't fulfill,
because I can't sign on and become a full-fledged regular participant;
I just don't have time.
As for the below, I did understand what JD meant in his
previous message, and our positions are essentially the same; I was just
pointing out some confusion about words, specifically "sin". Below, I'm not sure
if JD meant to write "repentance from dead works" or just "dead works"; I
suspect the latter. I think dead works themselves are the self-justifying
activity, and that is exactly how I would characterize the moral behaviour of a
person who has been made to feel guilty about her immorality, asks
forgiveness for that, and turns over a new leaf (enlisting Jesus' help,
perhaps). This is not repentance, and I think we would agree that this
is often the result of "Repent or be damned" preaching, preaching that starts
with pointing out our immorality (sins) instead of starting with the intent
of the Trinity for us and how Jesus the Incarnate has accomplished
it--which leads to repentance from unbelief and self-justification (which
are two sides of the same thing and are the real Sin), and life in the Spirit. I
am confident JD was saying the same thing. And I am willing to believe that
David Miller, although courting people's resort to "dead works" by starting
(only sometimes, if I take his word for it) from the wrong place, intends the
proper ultimate result.
One more message later on (must go now) about baptism into
Christ, and then I'd better stop! I welcome anyone else (you? JD? Bill?)
to explain that to cd in the meantime so as not to keep him
waiting.
D
----- Original Message -----
Sent: January 14, 2006 15:56
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
Debbie: I am trying to say that repentance from dead works is
activity that results in self-justification - we repent from
that and , in so doing, turn to the only other alternative,
Jesus. Does this clarify my remarks? Help !!
jd
--------------
Original message --------------
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
----- Original Message -----
Sent: January 14, 2006 14:18
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
Of course it is sin and needs repenting of. (JD is
actually making the same vocabulary mistake below as DM.) But it is not
immorality; in fact, it is morality. Where this whole discussion of
repentance began was with a critique of street preachers' focus on
repentance as a call to turn from immoral living to moral living. As
pointed out long ago by Bill and/or JD, the repentance urged on people in much
biblical preaching was not a call to moral living, but a call to recognize
God. Insofar as it was a call to moral living, it was to people who were
already the people of God, and was a call to recognize God as covenant
partner. Peter's sermon fits right into that and moves beyond
it; the covenant is gathered up in Christ who turns out to be both its
maker and keeper, and that is why repentance is sealed by being baptized into
him.
D
----- Original Message -----
Sent: January 14, 2006 12:54
Subject: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
Well it is something that needs to be repented of JD;
if it is not sin, then why the need to repent?
Dead works is something lifeless as opposed to works
of righteousness which are the fruit of walking after the spirit.
One is dead religion - the other is life and
peace.
Yes -- and who said that "repentance from dead
works" is speaking of sin, anyway? "Dead works" is that
body of works that convinces someone that she is accpted by God RATHER THAN
PLACING HER FAITH IN THE CHRIST and allowing Him and Him alone to be
glorified in this [saving] function. Bill's comment
is brilliant, I think, and as it is attached to Acts 2 --
the best possible understanding of what happened on that First
Day.
There is no reason to think that the Hebrews writer has something else
in mind when he speaks of repentance from the failing effort of self
justification.
jd
From:
"Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Dead works is not the same as immorality, which
is what I think David means by sin. IMO, that [his equating sin with
immorality] is where this false and hence problematic distinction arises
between repentance from 'sin' and repentance from a failure to recognize
who Christ is.
yD
----- Original Message -----
Sent: January 14, 2006 09:38
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
Re:
repentance: basically, your admitting that Bill's understanding of the
Acts passage he posted is correct--i'd agree that's bible
teaching
however, the
point you are trying to make about it, represented below, is a
scripture dog that don't hunt--as usual, it is your own private
notion universalized, shot through with geekness but rooted plainly
(through contrast) in personalized philosophy, over which you
sprinkle some home-brew holy water labeled 'Heb
6:1'
the issue
historically is that you don't study and think much about (e.g.) Heb 6:1
while continually presupposing that it matches your philosophical
bias, bec to you it sounds always like it
does
in the end,
it simply ain't bible teaching, Bro
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:46:06 -0500 "David Miller" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes: || > Surely you know better than to hang the entire
gospel on one's > interpretation of one sermon. ||
> Heb. 6:1 says that an elementary principle of the doctrine
of Christ
> is repentance from dead works. This clearly links
repentance and sin.
||
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