[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

[Judy Taylor]

All of the scriptures below say "LIKENESS" David.  I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is going on to make "likeness equal to same as"  Jesus could not have been exactly the same as us because we are all born into an Eph 2 reality and He was not.  John the Baptist, the greatest of the OT prophets didn't think he was just like him at all, in fact John didn't think himself worthy to fasten the latchet on his sandal and said:    "He that cometh from above is above all; he that is of the earth is earthy and speaketh of the earth; he that cometh from heaven is above all. V.34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God, for God giveth not the spirit to Him by measure unto Him. The Father loves the Son and hath given all things into his hand." (John 3:31,34)   We are to take on (be conformed to) His likeness and one must be born again to even be able to see or comprehend the Kingdom of Heaven which he came to introduce to mankind. From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Nobody is denying tht Jesus is the second Adam from heaven.  Saying that he became flesh and was made in the likeness of men does not deny his divine origin.   Judy wrote: >  Your gospel is inverted ... > It is not Jesus who takes on > our likeness   Your statement here contradicts Scripture.   Hebrews 2:17 (17) Wherefore in ALL THINGS it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren ...   Romans 8:3 (3) ... God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:   Philippians 2:7-8 (7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN: (8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.   David Miller     ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE     The first Adam after the fall did indeed need saving from the wrath of God Bill and so do we.  Our "humanity" is under a curse along with the rest of creation Bill Which is spelled out in scripture.  Jesus went to the cross in order to institute a "New Creation" and this is why he is called the Second Adam.  The first Adam is earthy or of the earthy (as we are).  The Second Adam is the Lord from heaven.   Your gospel is inverted Bill.  It is not Jesus who takes on our likeness although he passed in all the areas where the first Adam failed; and was without sin where we are for the most part loaded down with it.  Read 1 Cor 15:42-52.  Sounds to me like the second Adam is the Lord from heaven.  I don't see anything earthy about him.  Temptation or no temptation.       From: Taylor   Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way?  Why couldn't he have been like the first Adam before the fall, ...   Because the first Adam before the fall did not need to be saved Judy. We do.   Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:50 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE         On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: so there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill.   Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).   Yes they did created the first Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which "likeness" Adam forfeited when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by eating the wrong fruit.   Thereafter all men (including us) are born into this world by procreation in the likeness of the first Adam rather than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)   The only possible way to regain the image of God lost by the first Adam is to become conformed to the image of the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming and His willingness to lay down His human life as a perfect sacrifice in our place.   Laying aside the fact that you are making much too much of Seth having been born in the image of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what would be wrong, then, with killing someone who was no longer created in God's image, but in Adam's),   At the beginnign they were created in God's image and now Noah who found grace is starting over even though it didn't take too many generations for the whole of humanity (all but 8 ppl) to be destroyed.  I don't believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a bunch of devils.   Judy, I fail to understand why that should even prevent Christ from being united in his person, his humanness with his divinity.   I understand.  It is mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is something God hates.   The only thing which could have severed that union was the one thing which he did not do: sin. Hence in his person, he was able to undo that which had indeed produced schizophrenia in the relationship between humanity and God.   Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way?  Why couldn't he have been like the first Adam before the fall, the one who was created?  Jesus was not exactly procreated like us since he had no human father so that must mess up your thesis at least a little.   And were he not like us in every way, he could not have produced this reconciliation; for what he would have done in a flesh unlike our own would have had no bearing upon human flesh, and we would therefore still be in sin.  Bill   Not so; all he had to do was meet God's conditions which apparently involved passing the test that A&E failed and he did that in the wilderness... right after his baptism. From: Judy Taylor   On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:57:12 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: so there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill.   Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).   Yes they did created the first Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which "likeness" Adam forfeited when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by eating the wrong fruit.   Thereafter all men (including us) are born into this world by procreation in the likeness of the first Adam rather than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)   The only possible way to regain the image of God lost by the first Adam is to become conformed to the image of the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming and His willingness to lay down His human life as a perfect sacrifice in our place. .   From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:31 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOTDIVINE     On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:29:22 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: OK - I'm asking Bill, what husband, and what schism?   Oh, I thought you were married. The bible says that you and your husband (if you had one) were to become "one" flesh, in other words the two of you in coming together would be united -- and not just physically, I might add; it is the marriage "union" after all. The same is true with God. The bible teaches that the Lord is "one" and it uses the same word when saying this; hence there is a oneness or unity within the nature of God, a coming together of a plurality in union.   God is a Spirit (Jn 4:24) so there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill.  Sure the Godhead are One and united in Spirit.   And so, since you suggested that if Christ be fully God and fully human there must be a schism, I was just wondering about the schism you have with your man. Why instead of schism aren't you united?   In marriage between humans it is "one flesh" Bill   There would only be a schism between the two natures of Christ if there were disunity between the two. The person of Christ had no disunity; hence no schism.  Bill   There would have been disunity "big time" if he had a human nature - just like us and was in fact wholly God ATST; schizophrenic would be the right term.  Also "Flesh and blood DO NOT inherit God's Kingdom" Bill so what would be the purpose??     From: Judy Taylor     OK - I'm asking Bill, what husband, and what schism?   On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:28:15 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: And while you're at it, will you explain your schism with your husband, too?   (If this needs clarification, just ask)   Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 5:24 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOTDIVINE           ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 1/14/2006 1:07:17 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOTDIVINE     Dean, I think this is where "theology" gets itself tied in knots. This is what JD has been accusing me of for so long. How ironic that his mentor Bill would write something like this.  I think Lance just repeated it to qualify something. So their Jesus must have a schism in his personality (or nature).  What about his saying to Philip "If you have seen me you have seen the Father"  We know he wasn't speaking of his physical body here; so does God The Father also have a schismatic personality.   cd: Judy can you define your usage of 'schismatic'.   On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:59:08 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Well, yes and no, DH. I am included in that circle of love in the way that Christ's humanity is included in that relationship. But as the humanity of Christ is not divine, neither am I divine.   cd: Lance at this point- How do you define "Divine"?     -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.     -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.     -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.     -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.     -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.   ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.