cd wrote: >>> If it [flesh] was weak show me one biblical >>> account where it was weak-and we will >>> discuss that
David Miller wrote: > Here are two: > > Matthew 4:2-3 > (2) And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an > hungred. > (3) And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, > command that these stones be made bread. ------------------------------------------- cd: Fasting and prayer does not make one weak David-Christ put the flesh into subjection by fasting it made Him strong not weak. ------------------------------------------ You just said, "put the flesh into subjection." That word "subjection" means he kept it down. Yes, that made him strong, but you are not recognizing that his FLESH was weak, which is why he had to put it under subjection. He was fasting, but his FLESH said HUNGRY, EAT. David Miller wrote: > Luke 22:42-46 > (42) Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: > nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. > (43) And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. > (44) And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it > were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. > (45) And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he > found them sleeping for sorrow, > (46) And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into > temptation. ---------------------------------------- cd: I see no weakness here-Who in their right mind wouldn't ask God if there wasn't another way if they foreknew this manner of death was coming-proves He wasn't insane David.. He stated" never less let thy will be done". A weak man doesn't pray till blood falls as sweat mostly for us-only the strong can do this. --------------------------------------- Again, I am not saying that JESUS was weak. I'm saying that his FLESH was weak. Remember that I have a dualistic view of man. Man has a spirit that serves God, but a flesh that serves the law of sin and death. The flesh of Jesus worked toward self preservation here. This is why he was struggling, praying. He was resisting the flesh which was weak and left to its own would never have allowed Jesus to subject himself to the death of the cross. The flesh was being put to death finally, once and for all, in the crucifixion. The flesh was screaming out, NO, NO, NO, save yourself. Please note that the Bible says that in the garden, an angel appeared unto him, strengthening him. The idea that he needed to be strengthened suggests a weakness existed. That weakness was in his flesh. Note that in his temptation in the desert, the same thing happened. Angels came and ministered to him, strengthening him. David Miller wrote: > Also, the following passage speaks of "striving against sin" and says we > should consider him. The clear implication is that he also strove against > sin, just like we do. > > Hebrews 12:3-4 > (3) For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against > himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. > (4) Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. ----------------------------- cd: The contradiction of sinners was at His trial when they contradicted themselves and made false accusations or the opposition of sinners in His daily life. Yes Christ also strove against sin but don't all born again believers suffer such? ------------------------ Yes we do! That is the point. His flesh was just like our own. Please note that the word "strive" means to fight against something. What was he fighting against? The temptation to sin that arises from the nature of the flesh. cd: > Both these passages is speaking of our Christian > state not the Heathen state. I believe Christ was > Tempted but resisted by the same Spirit we > Christians now have-but He was never weak- > Why is it so important to the group to make Him > weak David? What justification is there in doing so? I am not saying that Jesus was weak. Just the opposite. I'm saying that he was so strong and mighty that he always resisted his weak flesh. You used the word "resisted" above. What was he resisting? To resist means there was something to resist, and this would be the nature of his flesh that gave rise to temptations. If he resisted the nature of his flesh, and we have received his spirit, then we too can resist the nature of our flesh, by his spirit. That is why this viewpoint is important. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
