Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism

Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:47:01 -0800

Supply all the names of real scientists that you like, Lance.  It does not change the facts about the position of the scientific establishment.  I'm talking about organizations like the National Academy of Sciences.  They make a big legal case concerning how creation science is religion and therefore it is ILLEGAL to teach it in public schools.  Any mention of a Creator makes it RELIGION instead of SCIENCE.  Their position is that science and religion occupy two separate realms of human experience.  They accept the fact that many scientists are deeply religious, but they insist that the two cannot be combined.  Therefore, any mention of a Creator in science is forbidden. 
 
I reject the notion that science and religion do not overlap.
 
By the way, the NAS also makes big mention of how most religious groups have concluded that evolution is not at odds with their descriptions of creation and human origins.  In other words, the scientific establishment loves guys like R. Williams who help them keep the acknowledgement of God out of the classroom.
 
David Miller
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism

David says that 'the scientific establishment has...'. Look, David, if the generalization works for you then, OK! I already told you that I'd supply the names of real, as opposed to pretend, scientists, who are themselves believers (I supplied a couple of names) who hold to a variety of positions on this matter.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: March 23, 2006 14:20
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism

I really do not understand how it is that you think Fundies have destroyed any opportunity for creationism in schools.  The problem is that the scientific establishment has taken the position that any mention of a Creator departs from science.  Lance's position of theistic evolution is flatly rejected by science.  So the Fundies are not hindering creationism in schools.  Scientists are.  Are you really blind to this fact?
 
David Miller
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism

With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place "creationism" into the school programs for the reason stated below.  Amen. 
 
And, again,  a foot in the door would only allow the warring hordes  (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run helter skelter  --  yelling and screaming at each other while, at the very same time,  claiming victory for the Right Side.     Scary. 
 
jd
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up with.....well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your honor. 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD?  As has already been noted "Only when we prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism.  Evidence that
this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it.  So why
would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven?   judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systems and you are talking about religious people!!!   Amazing
 
Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system   ....................   I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around.  That way , you would have to worry about consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe.  but you and Kev will be happy.  CONSENSUS BE DAMNED.   KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!  jd
 
 
 
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is needful or true.
 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy?  
WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM  --   HUH  ???
 

From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
So?
There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church either.  What does that prove?    judyt
 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do.   I know this  -- 
there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church.  
 
jd
 
 
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
John wrote:
> The world in which we live would reject
> any mention of God in the evolutionary process, 
> IMO.   But  creationism in the schools?   Could
> that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical
> fundamentalist take-over of the culture?
ROTFLOL.  I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose.
 
John wrote:
> But to allow a mere  statement that suggests God
> is somehow in control as the Creator(?)   If this
> could be presented into the secular system of
> education without it being coopted by the fundies 
> --  go for it.   But I doubt that it can.  What a shame
> that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces
> the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity
> to introduce the Creator to others. 
In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools.  It is the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing this.
 
David Miller
 
 
 

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