On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 3:03 AM, Freddie Chopin <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 09/24/2014 02:40 AM, Mike Shal wrote:
>
>> Build time increased by over 100% compared to what?
>>
>
> Full rebuild WITH ^c^ takes 69s / 63s (first / second run). The same full
> rebuild without this flag takes half that time - 31s / 29s.
>
Ahh, ok. I think this is attributed to a combination of tup inefficiently
setting up the chroot environment each time, plus the extra overhead of all
file read/writes (including things like the shell/compiler/etc) going
through FUSE. These are all definitely things that should be improved,
though again the read/write FUSE issue is problematic getting it fixed
upstream.
> Oh - while I still remember - I think that automatic dependency tracking
> of tup ("correctness") and it's simplicity* should be emphasized more than
> its speed - from several talks with people I think that not many of them
> care about speed that much, as not many of us have projects with several
> thousands of source files... As I understand that tup can get popular when
> some major (and big) project adopts it, I guess that a middle ground would
> be more appropriate - emphasize correctness, simplicity and speed equally
> (; In my opinion tup's website puts the most emphasis on the speed.
>
For me it is hard to pick between speed & correctness - I think they are
both invaluable. Being able to press enter and have it start compiling
"immediately" is key to maintaining your flow. Moreover, guaranteeing
correctness in all cases -- not just modifying an existing source file, but
also adding/deleting files, changing the build configuration, switching
between branches, etc -- frees up your mind and encourages you to be more
experimental with your project.
This is why speed & correctness are Rules 1 & 2 in Build System Rules &
Algorithms :). You're probably right though that I focus on speed too much
on the website - I think that's partially because that's what you'll find
any time build systems are compared (and it's the easiest to measure). It's
hard to convince people that correctness matters, because make and its
derivatives are so fundamentally broken that they think it's normal to do
clean builds all the time. Once you get used to correctness, though, it's
impossible to go back.
-Mike
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