Well yes , there is too much and also not enough. As an IT professional
for some 13 years.. I find the reality is that most users never open books
or read docs. So apache (or whoever) can scold them all day .. all to no
avail, or try to bring them into the fold, by giving them JUST what they
need. I mean the JServ install is very simple, but, it has so much in it
for the basic user, that I lost count of how many people missed the point
"ONLY JSDK2.0" (are you listening jon SS?). So rather to have a simple ABC
docs and assume it all works, then have an index or errors and let those
in trouble follow the links of errors if they encounter those errors. At
present when I look at tubine, I have all these jars .. do I need them?
What does each do? Just to check I have my install working in the most
basic form.. what do I need? The basic install docs do not show this.
And the downloads.. any reference to Win32 before I decide what to
download... nope.
Yes I can read all the separate docs.. but would I be bothered ? Or do I
just download soemthing else and use that, for better or worse..
Anyway my point is that the products are good, but forget that many users
these days have limited experience and need to be taken by the hand ABC
style. IF not they just leave and use something else...
Well my point is to start a discussion, specifically to Turbine but more
generally to apache software, that I think there is a need or an
oppurtunity to bring less experiences users into the Apache fold, by
prividing "stupid" documents that just tell a users what to do and omit
why they are doing it. Not to teach them how to configure Turbine, but
rather to get them using it. Then once at this point, they can follow the
more extensive docs/faqs/archives, to customise their systems.
Well anyway .. like I said, I am not bitching, just airing my views and
thinking on how I might contribute to the community effort. Thanx for
your comments
Chris
On Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:30:58 -0400, Nissim wrote:
>I don't think there's too much documentation, it's just not organized as
>best it could be. Most software like this would have a Reference
>manual, a Users Guide, a Tutorial, and an install document. And then a
>searchable knowledge base for support. Some of the stuff in the docs
>dir would fit into those different documents....but then someone would
>have to organize it and add to it.
>
> -Nissim
>
>Travis Low wrote:
>>
>> Actually, I think there's TOO MUCH documentation. It's a bit
>> overwhelming. It turns out that configuration is very simple, but
>> discovering that fact was not easy.
>>
>> I think a post-install-configure script would be better than more
>> documentation. It would certainly reduce mailing list traffic. In
>> each configuration file, you could turn the comments into questions,
>> and add the appropriate checking. For example:
>>
>> ##
>> ## You should set the foobar.path to a foobar directory
>> foobar.path=/home/user/foobar
>>
>> Would become (please forgive my rusty perl):
>>
>> while()
>> { print "Please specify the path to your foobar directory: ";
>> $foobar = <STDIN>;
>> chomp( $foobar );
>> if( ! -d $foobar )
>> { print "Sorry, $foobar doesn't exist!\n";
>> }
>> else
>> { print "Using '$foobar' as your foobar directory.";
>> last;
>> }
>> }
>>
>> I've been toying with the idea of doing this for JServ, but I'm really
>> short on time and I'm not confident that I know JServ well enough to
>> produce an accurate script. I'm new to Turbine so I'm certainly not
>> ready to do one for Turbine.
>>
>> -- Travis Low
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 1-301-592-6305 (direct)
>>
>> Brevsville Administrator wrote:
>> >
>> > Excuse me if I am talking out of turn, but I am a fan of Apache and a fan
>> > of JServ, but myself and my colleagues found Turbine a bitch to get
>> > running.
>> >
>> > This is not a criticism of Turbine, but rather the fact that there are
>> > differing marketplaces for such products and one is not being addressed.
>> > As an example, I was recently asked which servlet runner to use by a
>> > moderately experienced part time programmer. As much as I like JServ I
>> > just couldn't recommend it as it is much more complex to configure that
>> > JavaWebserver.
>> >
>> > Now don't assume for one second I am a fan of JWS (we used it for 2
>> > years), JServ and it simply do not compare.. for so many reasons. My
>> > point is that as good as all the Apache products are, there is a real need
>> > for ABC instructions for getting a very basic install running.
>> >
>> > Before everyone flames me, I know many of you will say "how simple can the
>> > instructions get!!" a quick read of the java.apache archives show a large
>> > group of users who may be forever lost to apache since they cannot follow
>> > the current docs. That is not a criticism of the current documenters, but
>> > i do think there is a void not being filled for inexperienced programmers.
>> >
>> > Anyway , I just wanted to express my views, for what they are worth, and
>> > presently I am trying to find some time to put some totally dumb setup
>> > instructions for JServ on Win32 and then Linux. Then you can flame me for
>> > the poor job I maybe do.
>> >
>> > Anyway .. that's my 2c.. q flames..
>> >
>> > Chris
>>
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