on 7/11/2000 8:44 AM, "Brevsville Administrator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Well yes , there is too much and also not enough. As an IT professional
> for some 13 years.. I find the reality is that most users never open books
> or read docs. So apache (or whoever) can scold them all day .. all to no
> avail, or try to bring them into the fold, by giving them JUST what they
> need. I mean the JServ install is very simple, but, it has so much in it
> for the basic user, that I lost count of how many people missed the point
> "ONLY JSDK2.0" (are you listening jon SS?).
People miss that, but it is in bold in about 10 different places. I'm not
really sure how to make that more clear. If you have suggestions on how to
make people read the documentation, please tell me how. Again, be part of
the solution, not part of the problem.
> So rather to have a simple ABC
> docs and assume it all works, then have an index or errors and let those
> in trouble follow the links of errors if they encounter those errors. At
> present when I look at tubine, I have all these jars .. do I need them?
> What does each do?
There is a README file in the lib directory that documents what each of them
is. That is the answer to your question. No matter how hard I try, I can't
force you to see that. What else can I do?
> Anyway my point is that the products are good, but forget that many users
> these days have limited experience and need to be taken by the hand ABC
> style. IF not they just leave and use something else...
...and have the same sorts of problems, just with another product.
Idiots will always remain idiots until they learn to read the documentation
so that they can grow beyond being idiots. It is that simple.
Think of it this way:
Imagine that you are in school teaching a course on geometry. Are you
expecting the students to read a simple HOWTO that teaches geometry or are
you expecting the students to study the textbook?
Do you think that the students would get as good of an education with a
HOWTO or a textbook?
This stuff isn't rocket science, but it does take time and energy to learn.
You are trying to find the quick way out and I'm sorry, it just does not
exist and will never exist. You still need to learn how to do the math.
> Well my point is to start a discussion, specifically to Turbine but more
> generally to apache software, that I think there is a need or an
> oppurtunity to bring less experiences users into the Apache fold, by
> prividing "stupid" documents that just tell a users what to do and omit
> why they are doing it. Not to teach them how to configure Turbine, but
> rather to get them using it. Then once at this point, they can follow the
> more extensive docs/faqs/archives, to customise their systems.
Ok, I have been in this Apache/OSS game for about 6 years now which is much
longer than most people. At this point, I have pretty much seen everything.
Bluntly, no matter how many "stupid" documents get written, people will
still not bother to read them and there will always be people who are so
stupid they won't even understand the stupid documents. It is a losing
battle.
> Well anyway .. like I said, I am not bitching, just airing my views and
> thinking on how I might contribute to the community effort. Thanx for
> your comments
Bluntly, your "views" actually are not appreciated because they really don't
help anything. Yes, they are "bitching" because there is nothing qualitative
or quantitative about your "views".
Thank you very much, but I'm well aware that there are people out there who
can't read the documentation and need more handholding than others. What you
are "viewing" to us really isn't anything new or anything that we don't
already know.
Now, let me tell you what is appreciated (it is really simple): your
detailed suggestions for actually fixing things as well as your diff's and
patches for fixing things.
There are now 32 people who have contributed to this project, I challenge
you to become number 33.
Telling people like me to do all this work making everyone else's life
easier is also totally uncool. This is a 100% volunteer collaborative effort
and we are already doing the best we can.
I'm already giving up a good portion of my life (in case you missed it, I
work nearly 15 hours a day 6-7 days a week) to give away 100% of what I do
for free in order to hopefully make a few people's lives easier. If you
don't like it, help make it better, but certainly don't complain about it.
That is beyond rude and inconsiderate.
I will keep repeating this until it gets into everyone's head:
Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
:-)
thanks,
-jon
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