On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 1:28 PM, iain duncan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi folks, I'm hoping to just kindle some ( friendly ) discussion about > TW. It seems like a real wildcard right now in the TG2 future. I > personally think that if we are to pick TW, we need more people on it > than just Alberto because it's complicated, and he's busy. ( For which I > can 100% sympathize.) > > Problem is, when TW works, it's wicked cool. When it doesn't, or you > can't figure it out, it's like the TG version of mod_rewrite, confusing > voodoo that scares away small children and kills your app dead just when > you thought everything was going to work. Right now, it is ( I think ) > being perceived as languishing, it got too much attention before being > ready for prime time I guess, and Alberto's life got in the way. So it's > being dismissed by Pyloners and others and that is too bad because it > allows some really nice patterns with SA, the way you can add properties > in objects that map automatically to the widget fields and so forth. > > I'm hoping to work on DBSprocket/Mechanic and TW and their docs in the > not-too-distant future ( March on I think, current albatross is getting > closer to dead ) but if I'm going to invest a lot of time in digging in > to that code I would want to be sure that it's not just going to be > abandoned, and it pains me to see discussion on other lists where people > are saying that what TW does is not worth the pain of the docs and rough > edges. > > Problems I see: > - needs to work with new formencode and whatever data we chuck at it > - needs to be easier to get up and running with minimal pain > - needs better api ref and examples and tutorials > - changing/controlling templating options needs to be better > - some weird monkey patching issues need to be either smoothed out, or > eradicated ( ie, the voodoo of adding FilteringSchema if on TG, huh? ) > > So, um, what am I asking? Uh, who's interested? Thoughts? Can we change > how this aspect of TG is being run? Alberto, should we try to change > this into a more team effort? Give Chris P more reigns as he seems to be > on a crazy ass work spree? > > We need mystery step two here before profit! I feel like widgets is the > giant TG secret weapon in the barn that most people are afraid to use > because it killed those pigs last summer and the manual got all covered > in corn mash and only old Joe from up the hill what's really going in > there and so the others wonder why we keep hanging around that scary > looking barn anyway ... > > Thanks for listening to my drivel, > Iain > > I haven't dealt with TW too much yet, for several of the above reasons, but I will say this. TG1 Widgets really didn't click for me until I ran through a few tutorials. I just really didn't see the value until I could actually SEE the value, if you see what I mean. The "fooball tutorial" (which has since become this page: http://docs.turbogears.org/1.0/IntroductionToWidgets) is what really turned the lights on for me. As for TW, I really don't understand all of the many things that it can do, and how all the pieces fit together. What does the middleware do? What are the HostFramework pieces for? How do I set them up? I think good docs, and especially tutorials or other simple explanations on how to actually use TW would be extremely valuable. Right now, my impression (correct or otherwise) is that I'd need to dig into the TW source in order to get anything going with them. Alberto's "beta site" ( http://beta.toscawidgets.org/) is a step in the right direction, but I think more needs to be done. Even a few good blog posts or docs pages would be extremely helpful. Some topics that should be covered: - how to set up ToscaWidgets with TG1, TG2, Pylons, etc. - how to use existing widgets (ones from TW and twForms - an equivalent to the old widget browser might be useful...I know one was in the works at one point) - how to create your own widgets (both display and form widgets) - how to get data back from widgets when a form is submitted - parent/child widgets (which is supposedly the biggest advantage of TW over TGWidgets, but I'm vary hazy on how it all works - using params (and update_params) with widgets (lot's of people still have trouble with this in TGWidgets) - validation with widgets (IMPORTANT) Finally I have to say I agree totally that widgets are the "killer feature" of TG for me. When I first started using TG (before TGWidgets existed), it was mostly just to be able to use Python in the webapp space. Once widgets came along and once I "got" them, they've become just about my favorite feature. I curse audibly whenever I have to use a language or framework that doesn't have them. I really think they are key to TG's success, and we need to do whatever is necessary to keep them alive. Kevin Horn BTW, loved the "secret weapon in the barn" bit. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TurboGears Trunk" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/turbogears-trunk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
