On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 4:56 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> wrote:
> FOX News is having a Bernie Sanders Town Hall. > LINK > <https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bernie-sanders-fox-news-town-hall-bret-baier-martha-maccallum> > So, another Dumb & Dumber sequel > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 11:00 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 10:24 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I don’t disagree with much of your description, though most of it >>> applies most forcefully to their opinion programs. But the point is that >>> politicians should not have the option of deciding which outlets they want >>> to treat as good enough to be treated as “the press.” Once you start down >>> that road you are not far from Trump discounting any news story he doesn’t >>> like as fake. >>> >> >> I think there is a very obvious distinction between what I am asserting >> vs what Trump asserts. In order for me to classify the journalism on >> FoxNews as fake, they must first actually produce a news broadcast. They do >> not. FoxNews is as real as it gets in terms of disseminating conservative >> opinions and talking points. The only thing fake about it, which can be >> easily proven, is the word “news” in the name of the network. I’ve said for >> years that I’d have no problem whatsoever with the network if it called >> itself FoxOpinion; I would still find its content abhorrent and >> unwatchable, but I find 99% of the new content on TV fits that description. >> I don’t have to like something to recognize its legitimacy; Lady Gaga’s >> voice makes my skin crawl, but she’s among the best at what she does. When >> NBC dropped the America’s Talking Network in favor of MSNBC, Roger Ailes >> (who considered AT his pride and joy) felt betrayed and was determined to >> best MSNBC in the ratings, FoxNews did that; it was a network conceived out >> of rage, bitterness, and vengeance... and it shows. Just as Ted Turner >> changed the faced of TV news with CNN, Roger Ailes changed the face of >> televised punditry with FoxNews. And while one can, as we have, debate the >> merits of it, one can easily see why this highly partisan and politicized >> network is the wrong place to host a debate for candidates with beliefs >> fundamentally the opposite of that network’s focus. It’d be like asking the >> KKK to moderate a forum to help decide the new head of the NAACP. It’d >> undoubtedly be great theater, but not at all productive. >> >> >>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 9:09 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:58 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Inclusiveness is not the value I had in mind; rather it was commitment >>>>> to a free and independent press. Fox News is a compromised organization, >>>>> but it does provide news to a significant fraction of the nation, and a >>>>> party that hopes to govern the entire nation ought to open itself to >>>>> coverage by the widest possible spectrum of the news media. Certainly I >>>>> would be critical of Republicans if they restricted sponsorship of their >>>>> debates only to Fox News. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I dispute most of this. I support the notion of a free press, but >>>> FoxNews is simply not a journalistic endeavor, and thus the idea of a free >>>> press does not apply. They do not produce a news broadcast by any standard >>>> definition. While they employ certain people with degrees in journalism and >>>> broadcasting, they are not dispatched to gather or report the news. FoxNews >>>> produces commentary on the news of the day. Just as op-eds in print are not >>>> the same as actual news articles, what occurs on air at FoxNews is not the >>>> same as actual TV journalism. What FoxNews provides to its viewers is a >>>> heavily biased series of opinions. They have a right to televise their >>>> propaganda just as RT has the right to televise Putin’s, but when we >>>> attempt to broaden the definition of journalism to include what FoxNews >>>> produces, that’s frankly a huge problem. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 7:51 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 7:17 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Unlike debates for the general election for president, which are >>>>>>> generally organized by some neutral group and covered as a public event >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> any media outlet that chooses to, debates for party nominations are >>>>>>> party >>>>>>> events, that the party contracts with a media partner to produce and >>>>>>> carry. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am quite familiar with the New Yorker piece, and take second place >>>>>>> to no one in my scorn and disgust at Fox News network. But excluding >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> is contrary to core values that (as a long time active member of the >>>>>>> Democratic Party) I belive should be part of the Party’s DNA. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> All partisanship is exclusionary by definition. Democrats exclude >>>>>> conservatives; Republicans exclude progressives. Democrats are >>>>>> theoretically the party of inclusion, but frankly all are not welcome. >>>>>> For >>>>>> example, I could not conceive of a scenario in which the Democrats would >>>>>> agree to have Alex Jones moderate a debate for them on InfoWars. The >>>>>> point >>>>>> of primary debates is to give those in the party a chance to hear from >>>>>> the >>>>>> candidates. If it can be demonstrated or proven that the majority of >>>>>> Democrats do not watch FoxNews, it makes sense to exclude them from >>>>>> contention as a host for a debate. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 6:26 AM Adam Bowie <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A question from me on this: when a primary debate is hosted by one >>>>>>>> network, are other networks not able to cover it live anyway? If so, >>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>> they may choose not to - after all the branding will be for a rival - >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> that's a choice they make. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In Brian Stelter of CNN's email today he noted: "[Fox News] held a >>>>>>>> town hall with Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in 2016, but it >>>>>>>> hasn't >>>>>>>> held an actual Dem primary debate since 2004." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In fact, you would think it to be of interest to Democrats to get >>>>>>>> some familiarity with their candidates early on, so they're more of a >>>>>>>> known >>>>>>>> quantity later. But given some of the things that came out of Jane >>>>>>>> Mayer's >>>>>>>> New Yorker piece this week (Give yourself plenty of time to read it if >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> haven't already: >>>>>>>> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/03/11/the-making-of-the-fox-news-white-house) >>>>>>>> you can completey understand the Democratic position. The story makes >>>>>>>> renewed clams about Trump being given advance notice of questions in a >>>>>>>> Republican primary, and if that's the case, then even a debate held >>>>>>>> within >>>>>>>> the news division couldn't be guaranteed as fair. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Adam >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 1:32 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I hope they reconsider this also. Fox News is horrible, but it is >>>>>>>>> not the place of the people who want to run our government to decide >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> news organizations they want to cover them. There are going to be 12 >>>>>>>>> debates this year (2019), it doesn’t really matter what the ratings >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> be on Fox News. DNC could insist that only people identify by FN as >>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>> full time in the “news” side (not opinion) are involved. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 7:33 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> FOX News seems fixated on AOC. I'm surprised they'd want to hear >>>>>>>>>> from other Democrats. >>>>>>>>>> NEW YORK (AP) - The Democratic National Committee says it won't >>>>>>>>>> pick Fox News to televise one of the upcoming debates being held for >>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>> 2020 presidential contenders. >>>>>>>>>> The party chairman, Tom Perez, says he's concluded that the >>>>>>>>>> network isn't in a position to host a fair and neutral debate. He's >>>>>>>>>> citing >>>>>>>>>> a New Yorker magazine article released Monday that details Fox's >>>>>>>>>> relationship with President Donald Trump. >>>>>>>>>> Even before the article, some Democratic activists were >>>>>>>>>> complaining about the committee's consideration of Fox as a potential >>>>>>>>>> broadcast partner. >>>>>>>>>> The Democrats have announced 12 debates for later this year, with >>>>>>>>>> NBC News and CNN set to broadcast the first two. >>>>>>>>>> Fox says it hopes the Democrats will reconsider. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> Kevin M. (RPCV) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Kevin M. (RPCV) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
