--- In [email protected], "Stephen Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Although I agree with much of what you said, I'm confused by your
statement
nn> that the small dishes are not satellite feeds? A satellite feed
is one
> which comes from the satellites. This covers dishnet and directv.
You also
> stated that small dishes are not line of sight like CBand. This
statement is
> also untrue. If you are not line of sight, you wont' get a picture
on a
> small dish either. They are pointed directly at the satellites and
get
> their signals directly from the satellites. The difference is that
all
> small dishes are digital and only some CBand and KU is digital.
Small
> dishes are the same as anything else from a satellite except it is
KU only.
> The only other difference is that dishnet and directv use circular
> polarization rather than linear. but that is the only difference.
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bigfox90210" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:26 PM
> Subject: [TVRO] Re: Prime Star dish
>
>
> > --- In [email protected], "Stephen Smith" <ab8yy@> wrote:
> >>
> >> CBand is not dying. Only some analog on CBand is dissappearing
and
> > being
> >> replced with digital. There is many many digital feeds on both
KU
> > and CBand
> >> which can be gotten with an inexpensive FTA receiver. These
would
> > be mostly
> >> all MPeg feeds but they are all over the place. CBand is
excellent
> > for
> >> this. Many of the old "wild feeds" such as syndicated stuff is
> > slowly
> >> making the shift to MPeg digital. Any cheap FTA receiver will
get
> > them just
> >> fine on both C and Ku bands. There are still quite a lot of
> > syndicated and
> >> news feeds available in analog yet. Ask any engineer at a local
> > television
> >> station and they will tell you it is still quite active and will
> > probably
> >> continue for a while.
> >>
> >> Just my opinion.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >> AB8YY
> >> it's good that there is someone out there that believes C-Band,
for
> > I also know that there is plenty of wildfeds and some TV stations
as
> > well. I love the sound and picture quality with c-band and no
small
> > dish company nor CATV will match the quality with C-band or the
Over
> > the air quality given the reason with C-band, I have noted the
signal
> > is more direct "Line OF Site". This isn't the case with CATV nor
the
> > small dishes. For awhile back I have posted about the quality
with C-
> > band and The small dish companies, along with CATV use a backhual
> > system when it comes to distributing the poor quality of signal to
> > one's location. I just don't quite understand how these small
little
> > dishes could claim they are a satellite system, to which they are
> > not.Would someone out there from this group know the kbsp for dish
> > and DirecTV? Thanks.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "johanson" <johanson@>
> >> To: <[email protected]>
> >> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:39 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [TVRO] Prime Star dish
> >>
> >>
> >> > Thanks for the great post Rod. I've been an inactive member of
> > this forum
> >> > for way too long. Back in 1981 I installed, yes I installed my
> > first C
> >> > band dish in Seattle. I was a rank beginner and had one heck
of a
> > time
> >> > getting everything to work. The worst mistake I made was
ordering
> > a hand
> >> > crank to change dish positions. I soon upgraded. Then in the
> > early 90s I
> >> > added a DirecTV system to my home. (someone else installed it)
> > Now just
> >> > north-west of Seattle is Vancouver Island in BC, CA where I and
> > six other
> >> > relatives have a primitive summer cottage and share a Star
Choice
> > system,
> >> > which is in my name.
> >> >
> >> > Now that I am retired I come to Mexico during the cold weather
> > months up
> >> > North, where as a snowbird I have experimented with a 922 4DTV,
> > DISH
> >> > Network and Star Choice.
> >> >
> >> > My favorite system now that C band is dying is
www.starchoice.com
> > but
> >> > being a C band dish-head I wont admit it.
> >> >
> >> > Pete KD7ION
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > From: kb8dns
> >> >
> >> > Hello all!
> >> > A little about myself... I've been a "dish head" for
about.......
> >> > .......................
> >> > ...........................................
> >> > ...........................................
> >> > .......................................
> >> >
> >> > Rod KB8DNS
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
--
> >> > MPEG2 Charts and Info: http://www.global-
cm.net/mpeg2central.html
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
--
> > Yahoo!
> >> > Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> > Checked by AVG.
> >> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.10 - Release Date:
> > 5/7/2008
> >> > 12:00 AM
> >> >
> >> >
> >>Well I don't know if I would by that kind of logic from one of
the members, how ever I feel that the folling informations hold trues
as stated by the folling "C-Band quality is superior to any other
viable delivery method. Almost all Cable, DirecTV, and Dish Net
channels originate from the C-Band Backbone, the very same C-Band
Master Broadcasts we enjoy first generation. Little dish and cable
bandwidth limitations force providers to compress "the crap" out of
the unadulterated C-Band master broadcast, before sending them to
their "Pizza Pan" Satellites, and cable headends. Over compression
causes channels to become fuzzy and colors are washed out. They save
by delivering compressed "sardine TV". Why pay more for over
compressed 3rd generation washed out TV?
You are right there is a big delay for locals on the small dish.
This is partly due to how they transmit that signal. Those local
channels, at least on DNet are sent from a point where there is a
tower near the channels they want to receive, usually at one of the
local channel's studios, and this is then sent by fiber telephone
lines to Wyoming uplink station. I think the telephone fiber
probably leads to some of the delay in these signals. Seems to me the
local channels have the worse delays. At least from what I have
noticed. I believe the delay would be lessened some if they picked up
the locals thru satellite rather than fiber feeds. But, I realize
many of the smaller markets don't have sat uplinks to receive.
Steve Smith (01-21-2008)
Tell me if I should just shut up - I can take being flamed, but
I've been watching and contributing a little to this thread of MPEG
vs C band analog and other satellite choices. (At the bottom is a bit
that caused me to write this. )
The delay with direct broadcast satellite (DBS) is not related
to fiber or satellite links particularly. It has more to do with MPEG
compression, which looks at motion over time. The more you compress,
the more MPEG looks at stationary material and "throws away"
information not critical (and
oftentimes critical...) to the scene.
By taking information from multiple stations and comparing the
relative amounts of motion on each channel, a "statistic multiplex"
(statmux) can then allocate more or less bits based on each stations
individual need at that moment. For example: Ch 2 has a football game
with a play in motion,
Ch 4 has a newscaster infront of a set. Ch 2 gets more bits at that
moment and Ch 4 gets a lot fewer. Do this constantly with a
transponder full of stations and you can fool most people into seeing
a pretty fair picture most of the time. The same principles apply to
transponders carrying CSPAN, Weather, ESPN, etc ... - motion needs
bits, stationary takes very little bandwidth.
But that all takes time to determine. The delays add up
something like this... The football snaps ...The production truck
outputs the signal instantly The encode to MPEG happens (first time) -
1/3 second
Fiber path to network - almost NO delay Satellite path to network -
1/4 second or so delay Network decode of MPEG so they can record /
switch / etc... 1/3 or a little less Network switching /
commercials / "bug" insert - 1/30 or so Network to C-analog uplink -
1/3 or so, BUT... MPEG for station distribution
(i.e. ABC or NBC) - another 1/3 (and a 2nd whack at MPEG compression)
Your local affiliate - decodes MPEG 1/3 sec Somehow, the DBS
providers get a signal from the station's over-the-air, possibly by
an antenna and possibly being fed a signal via fiber from the
affiliate, but somehow THAT must get to DirecTV with with another
MEPG cycle here (3rd time)
DirecTv or DishNetwork decode that MPEG again for another 1/3 or so,
and then the STAT MUX holds it all for 1 or 2 seconds as it analyzes
the compression needs, and then the compression actually happens -
add probably 3 seconds for the 4th MPEG cycle Again, a trip to the
satellite, a trip thru your home decode box, and finally, about 5 to
8 seconds after the snap, your home TV gets it.
Cable networks eliminate part of this by NOT having an affiliate in
the middle.
Now, if the TV is stripping digital audio off of the HDMI
output, and your digital audio decoder takes another moment to take
apart an AC-3 stream (guess what - more compression) ...
Oh yeah - lipsync, or the delay between audio and video,
continues to be a problem in TV land. EVERY compression cycle, every
box that adds graphics or flips and tumbles the video has a whack at
messing up timing between audio and video. There actually is a device
used by most networks that measures, right down to the millisecond,
the timing delay (or advance!) so, at least as the signal hits Master
Control, the timing is spot-on.
With so many encode-decode cycles, no wonder the video looks
stunningly dull from the DBS boxes. If only you could see true native
HD - 1080i runs at 1.5gigaabits and 1080p (it it EVER really comes
about) runs at 3gigabits. ESPN says they'll go 1080p soon, but I
wonder how. Not 1 truck I know of is ready for 1080p, and with
delivery such a boondoggle now, who will ever SEE a difference???
Kevin Stebleton (01-21-2008)"
With is in mind, when listening to some of the network feeds,not
cable or small dish, I have notice with c band and over the air
broadcast the audio portion of the local broadcast stations and C band
have a much claaner sound quality,to whre there is not any gargly
sound as with the case with the small dish, which indicate with me
that there is some kind of a repeater that is used, also causing some
sort of delay of their signal to the home user of their service
> >2 with the used of 20 inch widescreen monitor,having a pickles
ratio of 1680x1050, I for sure able to tell the difference from the
quality of picture from C Band, over the air and cable and small dish
reception, with the C ban and over the air winning hands down.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > MPEG2 Charts and Info: http://www.global-cm.net/mpeg2central.html
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo!
> > Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.10 - Release Date:
5/7/2008
> > 12:00 AM
> >
> >
>
