Correction. Delv into what the specs might someday be. :-P

Abraham

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:38, Dewald Pretorius <dpr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This type of behavior by Twitter and treatment of developers is a
> _great_ motivator to delve into the specs of the Google Buzz API.
>
> On Feb 15, 3:11 pm, Abraham Williams <4bra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sounds like Twitter dropped the ball with notifications. It appears that
> > Twitter normally does send notifications before suspension as Refollow
> [1]
> > got 2 warning. Although Rob had the issue of no response to
> clarifications.
> >
> > Abraham
> >
> > [1]
> http://refollow.tumblr.com/post/380619972/weve-been-suspended-by-twitter
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:34, PJB <pjbmancun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Wow.  What's really of concern is the capricious approach Twitter
> > > seems to have with app developers.  Some apps are given a month to
> > > make a change, some are cut off immediately, some are sent legal
> > > letters, some are contacted beforehand, some aren't.
> >
> > > Frankly, there should be no tracking code.  If there is an issue,
> > > apart from extreme situations, Twitter should contact the app and, as
> > > they apparently did with socialtoo, give some reasonable period of
> > > time to remedy.
> >
> > > On Feb 15, 10:02 am, Peter Denton <petermden...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Twitter should at least send a notification suspension, as well as a
> > > > tracking code possibly, for both parties benefits, twitter and the
> app.
> >
> > > > *Reason*: My app was suspended, for something perfectly harmless, and
> was
> > > > re-granted permission the next day,  but it took a few communications
> > > with
> > > > twitter to resolve.
> >
> > > > This is only going to continue to become more and more frequent. I
> would
> > > > hate to envision a team of a few people having to follow up on app
> > > > suspensions w/o reference.
> >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Dewald Pretorius <dpr...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > The argument of, "Clearly defining rules helps the spammers because
> > > > > then they know exactly how to stay just within the boundaries,"
> holds
> > > > > _absolutely no_ water.
> >
> > > > > Imagine you own an ice rink. You draw a circle with a radius of 2
> > > > > meters on the ice, and make the rule that it's okay to skate inside
> > > > > the circle, and not okay to skate outside the circle.
> >
> > > > > If someone skates right at the edge, at 1.999 meters, all the time,
> it
> > > > > _does not matter_ because you have decided that it is okay and
> > > > > acceptable to skate there.
> >
> > > > > The same goes with Twitter rules. Make the rules very granular and
> > > > > very clear. Then, if someone skates just within the fringes, _it
> does
> > > > > not matter_ because they are still within what you deem acceptable.
> >
> > > > > And, then _everyone_ knows where is the line between good and bad
> > > > > application behavior, because then it is a fence and not a broad
> gray
> > > > > smudge.
> >
> > > > > Most app developers are _not_ "the enemy" and most app developers
> will
> > > > > be more than happy to not develop or to disable features that
> violate
> > > > > the rules.
> >
> > > > > If only we can understand the rules.
> >
> > > > > On Feb 15, 12:04 am, PJB <pjbmancun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > +1 to what Dewald says.
> >
> > > > > > We are purposely NOT developing certain features for fear that
> > > Twitter
> > > > > > may suddenly change their rules once again.  Is this the sort of
> > > > > > business environment that Twitter wishes to foster?
> >
> > > > > > We had assumed that, at the very least, applications would be
> > > > > > contacted before any sort of action on Twitter's behalf.  But
> > > > > > apparently not.  And apparently this push for OAuth integration
> is
> > > > > > simply a means to more easily cut-off access to certain apps.
> >
> > > > > > Ugly.
> >
> > > > > > On Feb 14, 4:30 pm, Dewald Pretorius <dpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > I attempted to make clear that my issue was not with the guilt
> or
> > > > > > > innocence of GoTwitr.
> >
> > > > > > > It's with the message being sent to all of us when no
> communication
> > > > > > > accompanies a suspension.
> >
> > > > > > > I'm going to beat the dead horse yet again. With vague and
> nebulous
> > > > > > > rules, nobody knows for certain what is allowed and what is
> not.
> >
> > > > > > > Twitter invite people to build businesses using their system
> and
> > > API.
> > > > > > > By providing the platform, extending the invitation, and making
> the
> > > > > > > rules, they are also assuming a responsibility.
> >
> > > > > > > It is a grave concern that one's business can be terminated by
> > > Twitter
> > > > > > > with no warning and no explanation, based on some rule that
> nobody
> > > > > > > knows for certain exactly what it entails. It would have been a
> > > > > > > slightly different situation had their rules been as clearly
> > > defined
> > > > > > > as Facebook's rules, but they're not, with intention.
> >
> > > > > > > Take follower churn for example. Do I churn followers if I
> unfollow
> > > > > > > ten people in a day, and follow five others? Or do I only churn
> if
> > > I
> > > > > > > unfollow a hundred? Or is it two hundred? Or, wait, is the
> number
> > > > > > > immaterial while my intention puts me in violation or not? If
> so,
> > > how
> > > > > > > is my intention discerned?
> >
> > > > > > > Take duplicate content for example. If I tweet "Happy New
> Year!"
> > > every
> > > > > > > January 1st, is that duplicate content? What about "Good
> morning
> > > > > > > tweeps!" every morning? Will my personal and business accounts
> be
> > > > > > > suspended if I tweet, "Can't wait for the iPad!" from the same
> IP
> > > > > > > address at roughly the same time? What if I did what Guy
> Kawasaki
> > > > > > > recommended athttp://bit.ly/jkSA1andtweetedthesame text four
> > > > > > > times a day, will my account be suspended?
> >
> > > > > > > These are question my users ask me, and I don't have an answer
> for
> > > > > > > them.
> >
> > > > > > > On Feb 14, 6:51 pm, Tim Haines <tmhai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > Dewald,
> >
> > > > > > > > Try looking in the google cache.  I'm surprised it was
> allowed to
> > > > > live for
> > > > > > > > as long as it did.
> > > > >
> http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:o2N2KuZsuYgJ:www.gotwitr.com/+go.
> > > ..
> >
> > > > > > > > It was basically a spam enabler.
> >
> > > > > > > > T.
> >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Dewald Pretorius <
> > > dpr...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I cannot comment on what Jim's site did or didn't do, since
> he
> > > has
> > > > > > > > > pulled all descriptive information from the site.
> >
> > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, it is highly disturbing that applications are
> > > being
> > > > > > > > > suspended without any notice. This particular site seems to
> > > have
> > > > > had a
> > > > > > > > > contact form, plus it was OAuth, so the owner could have
> been
> > > > > > > > > contacted via the email address on file for the Twitter
> user
> > > that
> > > > > owns
> > > > > > > > > the application.
> >
> > > > > > > > > Yes, some apps do stuff that warrant suspension. But, to
> just
> > > > > suspend
> > > > > > > > > an app with no communication is bad.
> >
> > > > > > > > > If Twitter don't want to give some sites the opportunity to
> > > correct
> > > > > > > > > transgressive behavior (I know they do communicate in some
> > > cases),
> > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > the very least send an email to the owner with, "Your
> service
> > > has
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > suspended because...", and give a clear path and
> instructions
> > > on
> > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > the situation can be remedied as soon as possible.
> >
> > > > > > > > > I'm going to say it again, Twitter: Your rules are vague
> and
> > > > > nebulous.
> > > > > > > > > Not everyone understands and interprets the rules the way
> you
> > > do
> > > > > > > > > internally.
> >
> > > > > > > > > You must realize that actions like these sometimes shout so
> > > loud
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > we cannot hear when you say, "We care about our
> developers."
> >
> > > > > > > > > Rightly or wrongly, here's a developer who has lost face
> with
> > > his
> > > > > user
> > > > > > > > > base, and has been in the dark for 4 days now. The message
> it
> > > sends
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > us, the other developers, is a very bad message. If you
> > > properly
> > > > > > > > > communicated with Jim, he probably wouldn't even have
> posted
> > > about
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > here.
> >
> > > > > > > > > On Feb 14, 3:56 pm, Jim Fulford <j...@fulford.me> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Hello, I need some help.  4 days ago I started getting
> emails
> > > > > from my
> > > > > > > > > > users that they could not login to our site using the
> Oauth
> > > > > service.
> > > > > > > > > > I checked my site and it said my application had been
> > > suspended.
> > > > >   I
> > > > > > > > > > did not get any email from Twitter, they just deactivated
> my
> > > > > > > > > > application so nothing works.  I have sent in two support
> > > > > tickets, but
> > > > > > > > > > gotten no response.  2 days ago, I took my site
> > > > > downwww.gotwitr.com
> > > > > > > > > > so that I would stop getting support email from my users.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > I have had this site up for 5 months, and I have over
> 5000
> > > users
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > used the service.  I am so glad that I have never charged
> for
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > > service, this would be a nightmare.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > If they would let me know what our site, or one of our
> users
> > > did
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > get banned, we would be glad to fix it.   We have tried
> to
> > > make
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > > site as Twitter API friendly as possible.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > We are 100% Oauth, we have never saved or requested any
> users
> > > > > > > > > > passwords.
> > > > > > > > > > We only let our users hit the Twitter API 1000 times in a
> 24
> > > hour
> > > > > > > > > > period
> > > > > > > > > > We have all of our tools that follow or unfollow use
> > > individual
> > > > > user
> > > > > > > > > > verification, (no mass follow or unfollow)
> >
> > > > > > > > > > An email with the issue would have been great.
> >
> > > > > > > > > > Not getting a response in the last 4 days that my site
> has
> > > been
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > > is really not acceptable!
> >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > Abraham Williams | Community Advocate |http://abrah.am
> > Project | Out Loud |http://outloud.labs.poseurtech.com
> > This email is: [ ] shareable [x] ask first [ ] private.
>



-- 
Abraham Williams | Community Advocate | http://abrah.am
Project | Out Loud | http://outloud.labs.poseurtech.com
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