"/We've had people use it somewhat here, but then they gave up and went back to the 
line editor because WED doesn't give you *enough*/."

You need to understand that the above statement says so much more about those 
people than you want to admit.  The line editor is a neanderthal tool!  There's 
nothing else one can say about it.  The only reason to use it is to alter data 
in the database (so a neanderthal tool does have some uses).  If one rarely 
does this, than it's of little or no value.  WED has so much more value in a 
Windows environment than that POS editor!

Give up on this BS about old PICK tools.  They're not coming back.  If you want 
it write your own.  Dave Sigafoos wrote a really nice BASIC editor but I don't 
have the source code (nicer than JET, but in BASIC).  The program was not as 
powerful as, say, the XLr8 tool (if you can stand Eclipse).  Eclipse has a 
useful place for things like XLr8 (a development tool) (why Eclipse would be 
used for anything else is beyond me).  :-)

For many of us moving our development forward, the simplicity of PICK is long 
gone.  Now, you need multiple log files.  Debuggers don't work across 
solutions.  Logging is spread around everywhere, you need to keep your own 
logging within your code to monitor errors.  This is certainly not good, but 
there's no getting around the environment technology has dragged us into at the 

A typical big problem today is figuring out what is happening in (through) a 
UniObjects connection.  This can be monumentally frustrating to track down.  In 
D3, the socket into D3 could be tandemed to and the data flow could be watched. 
 Apparently, no one thought this would be a useful feature in the U2 world so 
it's either not available or not widely known how to do it.  In mv.NET they, at 
least, built a window to watch the data flow through their connection (via 
UniObjects), which, as we all know, is a tremendous help is debugging 
application code.

Now, imagine these problems associated with multiple layers of BS technology to 
provide a solution and you now understand why the simple PICK paradigm was very 
nice.  I keep thinking if U2 could provide a solid, debuggable, web solution 
for applications that would go a long way of overcoming this monumental problem 
everyone has by at least attempting to minimize the technological overload 
while providing a path to the future (web-based applications).  But then, they 
go and use Eclipse!  Go figure...

Most of us appreciate the simplicity of ancient PICK, but we don't see the 
point is wishing we had 30 year old telnet tools.

Just some thoughts...  :-)


Untitled Page
----- Original Message -----
*From:* wjhon...@aol.com
*To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
*Date:* 6/17/2012 8:08 AM
*Subject:* Re: [U2] Runoff ?
  The point of having a built-in full screen editor in Universe is to take 
advantage of things that you can only do from within Universe.  By the way I'm 
on Windows so uvvi isn't an option.  WED is just a dumb full-screen editor.  
We've had people use it somewhat here, but then they gave up and went back to 
the line editor because WED doesn't give you *enough*.  Just being able to 
cut-and-paste and point isn't enough compared to what the line editor can do, 
or what JET used to be able to do.

So our options so far are one hobbled pony or a deaf and blind mule.
Because IBM or Rocket decided the racehorse needed to be made into horse burger.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Clark <u...@edclark.net>
To: U2 Users List <u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org>
Sent: Sun, Jun 17, 2012 7:34 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ?

uvvi is the program that universe uses to launch the vi editor on unix. It does
the work of converting an item and filename to an os path that can be passed to
vi. IIRC, the source is in APP.PROGS, so you can change it to use any
editor--emacs, stevie, or whatever else you like on unix. If you are using a
windowed desktop (X, gnome, kde) then it can run any of the modern graphical

I don't recall there being an equivalent from universe on windows, but you can
modify uvvi to launch any windows editor, provided that you are running your
shell directly on the server, and are on windows xp or earlier. You lose that
ability with windows vista. But if you have Accuterm, you can use its built-in
WED editor, or use accuterm scripting to launch any windows editor that you

On Jun 17, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Wjhonson wrote:

I have no idea what DBTools is, nor what uvvi is

-----Original Message-----
From: Boydell, Stuart <stuart.boyd...@spotless.com.au>
To: U2 Users List <u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org>
Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:23 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ?

Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse
for not being "built into". Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as
hell better than the other "full screen" editor , uvvi, no?

From: Wjhonson
Sent: 17-Jun-12 5:52
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ?

Don't be so sure.
We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe....

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Clark <u...@edclark.net>
To: U2 Users List <u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org>
Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ?

I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe and
unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki.
Doesn't seem like Rocket Science.

On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote:

With you on that!

Bring back RUNOFF!
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