Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > Dear Moinak, > > Base on all that you have said, a small footprint solaris that will > support WiFi access and browser with support for Active X is a > not-too-distant achievement. > > On your suggestions of disk compression to further reduce the > footprint - I am sure if I am technically righ in saying this - disk > compression of the O/S footprint would merely minimise the space > required for installation, but for the O/S to operate, the installed > footprint may have to be decompressed, which means that additional RAM > would be required. >
Not really. The decompression is done on-the-fly. Required blocks are decompressed as and when they are required. Unused decompressed blocks are returned to the cache and are re-used later. So additional RAM is not required. BeleniX uses this technique and can happily operate a GUI Xfce desktop with 256MB RAM. However the decompression does add a bit of CPU overhead due to the usage of Zlib (gzip) compression . If CPU usage is a concern then a much more lightweight compression technique called lzjb present in the OpenSolaris kernel can be used. It gives less compression than Zlib but uses far less CPU. Regards, Moinak. > The idea of a small footprint is not only to minimise disk space, disk > space, from a commercial point of view is not expensive to expand. The > cost difference between a 128MB flash/diskspace and a 256 MB diskspace > wouldn't be all that insignificant. > > The idea of the smallest possible footprint is to minimise the > hardware resources required as also to minimize the demands or stress > on the processor. Besides a small footprint O/s would also minimise > the power requirements ??? > > Based on these considerations, is disk compression a good idea? Disk > compression would make a 256 MB footprint LOOK LIKE a 128 MB foot > print, but it does not become a 128 MB footprint, so to speak. > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > > On 9/23/07, Moinak Ghosh <Moinak.Ghosh at sun.com> wrote: > >> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: >> >>> Dear Moinack, >>> >>> Thank you for the detailed technical insight into the problem. >>> >>> I have not assumed that it is a technically easy task. It is indeed >>> complex and would require a large team of technical experts to work on >>> it for weeks, perhaps months. >>> >>> >> Not - that - complex either unless one is looking at code >> modifications in the kernel >> to strip down functionality for fitting in embedded devices. That is >> a different ball >> game. >> >> >>> But what is the maximum that can be QUICKLY shedded or stripped from >>> the lowest available footprint ? For instance if one Solaris expert >>> examines the list of packages in the most recent Belenix or any other >>> sub 1 GB flavor and strips the MOST OBVIOUS unnecessary packages >>> leaving the essential components of the GUI and the essential browser >>> components, how small can it IMMDIATELY and EFFORTLESSLY get ? >>> >>> If it can come down to 400 - 600 MB, it is still fine. I am thinking >>> of a proof of concept prototype, and would proceed on the belief that >>> it it can effortlessly get down to 400 - 600 MB, it can get down to >>> sub 128 MB with concerted efforts, coordinated and funded research. >>> >>> >> Sub-400 footprint is not too difficult to achieve. Others have >> already tried that per the >> links sent out earlier. What I was thinking of was something similar >> to FreeNAS >> http://www.freenas.org/ . This will require compression on the disk >> to further reduce >> the footprint. >> >> >>> I have two boards, one with a more 'powerful' processor of 500 MHz, an >>> AMD Geode dubbed Geode 800 (this one with a generous DDR II ? 1 GB >>> Ram) , and another a more demanding 333 MHz Geode processor board with >>> a DDR I 256 MB ram. On both these boards the hard drives are generous, >>> the 500 MHz board has a 40 GB hard disk, entirely unused, but for this >>> purpose we will set aside a 512 MB partition or use a 512 MB USD drive >>> as a hard disk. And on the 333 Mhz board a 512 MB USB can be used as >>> hard drive. I hope both these boards can take a 400 - 600 MB foot >>> print, lower if it can get lower effortlessly. >>> >>> >> Solaris can boot on the AMD Geode. You might want to consider booting >> off a >> Compact Flash rather than a harddisk to save power. >> >> >>> Ethernet has to work, Wifi has to work, and if Wifi can't work >>> immediately with the present level of work done on WiFi, it is stil >>> Ok, for a proof of concept, we can take it forward further after >>> initial success on this level, on these boards. >>> >>> The concept of the device in question is an Internet Access handheld, >>> possibly with a 8.5" LCD screen, running solaris ( ultimately ) on 128 >>> MB Ram and 128 HDD, accessing internet by wire and by wifi, with a >>> browser with graphic componnets such as Flash / Active X. I understand >>> that Active X is not supported by Solaris, we will come to that later. >>> Good Audio is needed, so we may have to think of Open Sound. >>> >>> WiFi is under development, Wi Fi can wait till the project moves on to >>> the next level of research. >>> >>> >> Wifi will work if you use one of the supported chipsets like Intel >> PRO/Wireless. >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless/ >> >> It should be possible to support ActiveX using Wine and the Crossover >> Plugin, >> though I have not tried it. Wine does work on Solaris however: >> http://freshmeat.net/projects/crossover/ >> >> Regards, >> Moinak. >> >> >>> Thank you Moinak, for being interactive. >>> >>> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy. >>> >>> >>> On 9/23/07, Moinak Ghosh <Moinak.Ghosh at sun.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear Moinak, >>>>> >>>>> That was a good guess that I did not understand what this is all about. >>>>> >>>>> I thought that you have arrived at a version of Solaris that is >>>>> stripped down from the 3.5 GB+ install size down to 70 MB. >>>>> >>>>> There was an earlier post on this subject with a valuable response >>>>> from Ananth Shrinivas that led to >>>>> http://blogs.sun.com/szhou/entry/build_a_minimal_solaris_image and >>>>> http://solaristhings.blogspot.com/2006/07/how-small-can-you-make-open-solaris.html >>>>> . I thought that Solaris 70 is a work in that direction. >>>>> >>>>> If Solaris 70 is not exactly that, then I am looking for a minimal, >>>>> bare minimal, stripped down version of solaris with just the basic >>>>> files needed to boot the GUI to have a minimal browser running. >>>>> >>>>> Apart from the response from Ananth Shrinivas I have some more leads >>>>> on this, and am ready with two minimal boards and some interesting >>>>> hardware to try a minimal installation. Can I ask installation help >>>>> from Open Solaris ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> What you are looking at requires quite a bit of work. The >>>> OS image must be configured to exactly handle one piece >>>> of controlled hardware. It will only contain drivers specific >>>> to that hardware. You will also need to tune to your use >>>> case. If for example one is building a storage box then it >>>> will need to have all the storage and networking related >>>> software: ZFS, NFS, iSCSI, Samba, Rsync etc. >>>> If you want GUI then you need Xorg. However just Xorg >>>> alone in it's entirety is about 170MB. So you will have to >>>> strip the Xorg setup as well. Remove all headers, docs, >>>> drivers. Have only the video driver for the video card >>>> you are using. Remove all unused libraries - depends on >>>> what apps you want to run on your minimal system. >>>> >>>> And all these cannot only be tackled by reducing the >>>> number of packages installed. Some of the tuning needs >>>> to go down to sub-package granularity. Essentially you >>>> will have to deal with understanding the purpose of >>>> individual files and deciding whether you need them >>>> or not. >>>> >>>> There is a plan to prepare a minimal image of BeleniX >>>> which can be tailored to fit vaious needs. For eg. the >>>> Storage/NAS thing I just mentioned. It is possible to >>>> prepare very minimal GUI desktop experience, but >>>> needs a predetermined video card and controlled set >>>> of apps. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Moinak. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/22/07, Moinak Ghosh <Moinak.Ghosh at sun.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Shivakumar, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for this response. This will help me get started. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Siva, are you expecting a version of OpenSolaris that uses >>>>>> 70MB of space after installation or runs in 70MB of RAM ? >>>>>> >>>>>> By 70MB, I indicated that the install process will block up >>>>>> 70MB of RAM and use some more for running the processes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Moinak. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/21/07, S h i v <shivakumar.gn at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/21/07, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy <shiva.madras at gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Moinak Ghosh, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am attempting to install a small foot print solaris on a AMD Geode >>>>>>>>> 700 board as also on a phone. Could you please tell me when this 70 MB >>>>>>>>> foot print solaris experss is expected? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As per Moinak's mail above the first beta is expected sometime in Oct >>>>>>>> "It will be possible to do this once a Slim Install beta release is >>>>>>>> available, >>>>>>>> sometime in Oct...." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The second release will be in March. >>>>>>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/caiman/Slim_Install >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also see >>>>>>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/caiman/Slim_Install/uiroadmap >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The below thread provides some details as to what goes into each of >>>>>>>> these 2 releases >>>>>>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=38317&tstart=0 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> regards >>>>>>>> Shiv >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> ug-bosug mailing list >>>>>>> List-Unsubscribe: mailto:ug-bosug-unsubscribe at opensolaris.org >>>>>>> List-Owner: mailto:ug-bosug-owner at opensolaris.org >>>>>>> List-Archives: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=54 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> ug-bosug mailing list >>>>>> List-Unsubscribe: mailto:ug-bosug-unsubscribe at opensolaris.org >>>>>> List-Owner: mailto:ug-bosug-owner at opensolaris.org >>>>>> List-Archives: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=54 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >> > > >
