Hi Ben, Dave,
Some hopefully useful information below, it’s an interesting question on 
autodetection.

The UK IPv6 Council has run sessions on transition technologies, reach out if 
there is something specific:
IPv6 Transition Workshop, Sep 2018 – UK IPv6 
Council<https://www.ipv6.org.uk/2018/10/26/ipv6-transition-workshop-sep-2018/>
Do you follow the council’s output?

This a public list from Lee Howard (not sure if continues to be updated) 
showing known deployments of IPv6 transitions across the globe:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ksOoWOaRdRyjZnjLSikHf4O5L1OUTNOO_7NK9vcVApc/edit#gid=0

The best know lw4o6 deployment I know of is DT, Terastream project in Europe. I 
am not aware of any “operational issues” output from them specifically.

Closer to home the Sky team have been deploying MAP-T in Italia I believe. 
Richard’s slides:
slides (PDF) 
(ipv6.org.uk)<https://www.ipv6.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Richard-Patterson-MAP-Overview-UK-IPv6-Council-2018.pdf>

In terms of summarising transition tech I find Jordi Palet an extremely 
valuable contributor on deployment issues and comparisons, c.f.
ipv6-transition-v7 
(apnic.net)<https://upload.apnic.net/uploads/ipv6-transition-deployment-v7_1519533393.pdf>

With lw4o6 or MAP-T/E then the protocols have been designed to be able to avoid 
the main and major operational issues, by using an IPv4 as a Service approach, 
either employing translation and encaps.
It is the operators choice to then couple these with the “addressing sharing”, 
in line with their own IPv4 address constraints. So in terms of operational 
issues is the address-sharing known problems that you seek. Have a look at 
Jordi’s paper above, especially the awesome table on page 56, and also the list 
of CGN problem areas…

BTW Microsoft xbox supports/prefers IPv6! PC clients are still a problem for 
IPv4 address sharing.

Regards,
Nick


From: uknof <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Bell
Sent: 19 December 2020 16:12
To: Ben McKeegan <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [uknof] Operational issues with IP address sharing with MAP-E, 
MAP-T or lw4over6 on residential network

Hi Ben,

This is also something we have been investigating recently. We have found that 
CPE support for transition technologies is pretty limited outside of WRT.

I also have concerns about gaming support. I don’t believe any of the current 
generation of consoles support IPv6 for their services. I did a quick 
experiment a few weeks ago and found that none of the popular gaming services 
on PC (steam, uplay, epic) support v6 only.

VoIP too is another service which concerns me. I think the only way to be 
certain about the impact of these technologies is a trial. We are looking to 
run one in the next few months.

I would be interested also to hear of any real world deployments and the 
support impact that they have.

Regards,
Dave

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 15:44, Ben McKeegan 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear UKNOF,

I have been asked to evaluate the feasibility of deploying lw4over6 with
IPv4 address sharing as an entry level option over an existing and
growing dual-stacked altnet, primarily for new residential customers.

My google foo is failing me on this one as I am struggling to find any
reports within the last few years as to how nicely various consumer
applications and devices play behind a shared IPv4 address, where each
subscriber is allocated a fixed sub-range of ports.  For example, one
area I am aware of which can present a problem with CG-NATs is the use
of games consoles for online multiplayer gaming, however, I am unsure to
what extent this can now be mitigated by enabling IPv6 on the consoles
and/or moving all the NAT to the CPE to give the user full control of
port forwarding (within their restricted range) and to avoid the
double-NAT.

Before I put in a budget request for a large selection of games
consoles, online gaming subscriptions and other consumer devices to go
in my test lab, which will no doubt raise a few questioning eyebrows in
the finance department :-), I was wondering if anybody on this list had
any operational experience of running lw4over6 or similar technologies
such as MAP-E/MAP-T on a residential network, and would be willing to
share their experiences of what is and isn't likely to work.   What
proportion of a typical residential user base are likely to be adversely
affected by IP address sharing?   Can anybody point me to any recent
studies on this sort of thing?

I also wonder to what extent we might be able to automatically detect
and mitigate the common problematic use cases, by flagging such
subscriber accounts as candidates for upgrade to dedicated IPv4 addresses.

Many thanks,
Ben.

--
Ben McKeegan
Netservers Limited


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