I don¹t think Penn is sponsoring the group. What I meant is they are the owner of the domain in which gives them a certain responsibility for its content, doesn¹t it.
As for your second point about group credibility, it is rather the appearance of credibility. That is to say, if I was looking for a listserv forum i this area and I ran across the UC Neighbors and saw upenn.edu in its address, I would probably think if I didn¹t know better that this Neighbors listserv is affiliated with the university because it is under their domain. If I see a forum under cbsnews.com, or citibank.com or harvard.edu, I would most likely assume these would under their domains and subject to all regulations therein. Would one be wrong to assume that if one didn¹t know the whole story? To specifically answer your question, ³Would your words, or mine, or anyone else's really become more credible because they were posted on a discussion group that happened to be on a UPenn server? ³ My answer would be no. I have advance information as to the nature of the group, how it was formed etc., but many others would not and that makes a difference. Wilma On 7/30/07 10:12 AM, "Dave Axler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Wilma, > > The answer to your first question can only come from Kyle, not me. > > However, I have used discussion groups based at both Yahoo and MySpace, and > can state from experience that they do have disadvantages: Most notably, there > are too many advertisements, both on the listserv/group pages themselves, and > in email one receives as a side effect of joining the group. Yahoo is > especially notorious for the latter -- one has to locate the special > "preferences" page and manually opt out of receiving such mail. I suspect, but > don't know for certain, that Google-based groups also involve advertisements. > > As for the second question, I think it is based on two false assumptions: > 1) Penn is "sponsoring" the new group. > Providing host services is not sponsorship, regardless of whether the > group is hosted on Penn's servers, or Yahoo's, or Google's, or an old Mac 8100 > sitting in somebody's basement. To claim otherwise is analogous to holding the > phone company responsible for what people say when they make calls. > 2) A group hosted by Penn is more credible than one hosted elsewhere. > I don't think groups as a whole are "credible". What matters to me is the > credibility of individual posters based on what they say and how well those > statements agree with my own knowledge and understanding of the world. Would > your words, or mine, or anyone else's really become more credible because they > were posted on a discussion group that happened to be on a UPenn server? I > don't think anyone here -- including those with whom I sometimes disagree -- > is that foolish and/or gullible, and I don't think new neighbors would be, > either. > > --dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wilma de Soto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Dave Axler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity listserv <[email protected]> > Sent: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 7:21 am > Subject: Re: [UC] True nature of UC-list > > True enough. If I could set up a listserv on any of the servers mentioned > (Google, MySpace, Yahoo) by you and Andy, why didn¹t Kyle? > > Having a ³community listserv¹ with a upenn sponsored URL would lend more > weight and credibility than one set up at purple.com or yahoo or myspace, > wouldn¹t it? > > I were a new resident to University City and wanted to go online with > neighbors, I certainly would think so. > > > On 7/30/07 1:36 AM, "Dave Axler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Yep, and you can get similar free services from Yahoo, AOL, MySpace, and a >> variety of other places. >> The exact features vary from host to host -- some let you make files and/or >> pictures available, some >> offer public calendar features for group events, all have some variations on >> how the messages are >> moderated (if at all) -- but the location of an ISP is, for a discussion >> list, generally not a sign of who >> "owns" and/or "controls" it. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Andrew Diller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: Wilma de Soto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Cc: Anthony West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; UnivCity listserv >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 8:08 pm >> Subject: Re: [UC] True nature of UC-list >> >> You can pretty much do it yourself, for free at Google. Google calls >> listservs "groups." >> >> http://groups.google.com/ >> >> >> -andy diller >> >> Wilma de Soto wrote: >>> > I see. How much is Kyle having to pay Penn to get them to host his server >>> > and lend him an IP address? >>>> > > Would I be able to do the same if I pay them to host a server for me >>>> and >>> > loan me an IP address? Who gets to do this? Must one be directly >>> > affiliated with the University or have someone who IS affiliated do it for >>> > you? >>>>> > > > On 7/29/07 7:32 PM, "Anthony West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > >> Thanks, Andy. Nice to read hard facts on UC-list this evening. >>>> >> >>>> >> Based on your experience, what sort of control do you think the Pope, or >>>> >> the Franciscan Order, or Villanova Univ. exercises over the content of >>>> >> this unmoderated UC-list, based on the mere fact of its mechanical >>>> >> address? Suppose the list became moderated instead -- how would that >>>> >> change the influence that Main Line Roman Catholicism now wields over >>>> >> UC-list as we know it? >>>> >> >>>> >> -- Tony West >>>> >> >>>> >> Andrew Diller wrote: >>>>> >>> If I may---- Actually, there is institutional affiliation: Villanova! >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> For some context, there are two things you need to know about any >>>>> >>> computer on the Internet: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> 1. who hold the DNS records for that domain >>>>> >>> 2. where is the IP address of the server located? (what ISP?) >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Only large institutions (penn, apple, comcast) 'own' the blocks of IP >>>>> >>> addresses that each computer must have to participate on the Internet. >>>>> >>> When you pay one of these people to host your server, they lend you an >>>>> >>> IP address. You then map a name (list.purple.com) to that particular >>>>> >>> ip address, and then people can use your server. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> People don't find it easy to type in numbers like 153.104.63.228 all >>>>> >>> the time, so other smart people invented DNS (the Domain Name system). >>>>> >>> Almost every IP address has a DNS name mapped to it to make it easy >>>>> >>> for people to use. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> So using DNS, we can address things like email to list.purple.com >>>>> >>> (which is a particular computer) instead of it's IP address, which is >>>>> >>> 153.104.63.228. Both those point to the same thing. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> So, to answer #1, it looks like Villanova holds the DNS records for >>>>> >>> purple. So it is safe to say that there _is_ an institutional >>>>> >>> affiliation for purple. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> Here is the record for it's DNS: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> ;; QUESTION SECTION: >>>>> >>> ;purple.com. IN A >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: >>>>> >>> purple.com. 6716 IN SOA ftp.ece.villanova.edu >>>>> <http://ftp.ece.villanova.edu> <http://ftp.ece.villanova.edu> . >>>>> >>> root.ftp.ece.villanova.edu <http://ftp.ece.villanova.edu> >>>>> <http://ftp.ece.villanova.edu> . 2006061100 43200 14400 3600000 259200 >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> ;; Query time: 10 msec >>>>> >>> ;; SERVER: 207.245.82.2#53(207.245.82.2) >>>>> >>> ;; WHEN: Sun Jul 29 19:08:36 2007 >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> And here is a GEO lookup for the actual list.purple.com computer: >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> The IP 153.104.63.228 is located in: >>>>> >>> Country: United States (US) >>>>> >>> Region: PA >>>>> >>> City: Villanova >>>>> >>> Latitude: 40.0369 >>>>> >>> Longitude: -75.3486 >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> (http://www.websitegoodies.com/tools/geoip.php) >>>>> <http://www.websitegoodies.com/tools/geoip.php%29> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> So, there you are. >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> -andy diller >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> ---- >>>> >> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the >>>> >> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see >>>> >> <http://www.purple.com/list.html>. >>>>> > > > ---- >>> > You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the >>> > list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see >>> > <http://www.purple.com/list.html>. >> ---- >> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the >> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see >> <http://www.purple.com/list.html>. >> >> >> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from >> AOL at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437> . >> > > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from > AOL at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437> . >
