Subject: [UC] My Role with the List Serve
All (particularly Glenn Moyer): Thanks for your reply Jon. As with Andrew Zitcer's opinion piece in a citywide paper, you should have disclosed your close relationship with Penn power brokers and leadership of Campus Philly before I did it for you, and others did for Andrew on this list. I know you but there are other individuals, who are in fact caught up with some very distressing Penn initiatives. I don't think badly of you nor do I have any reason to believe your participation was anything but a mistake. I simply disclosed your connections and the timing in this very serious matter. Please consider this a good-natured reprimand. The issue is not about a lost kitty in the neighborhood so your disclosure was very important. You are not a known regular on the list. You came onto a neighborhood listserv with complaints about this open list, which serves as a serious medium for communication in this neighborhood. Common individuals have limited opportunities to freely communicate their ideas unlike Campus Philly or Penn. In recent news accounts, this list sticks out as being so important that the discussions are referenced. Some questionable characters with close ties to the UCD assert that discussions about topics like lost kitties must be the only topics here. Those posts are important too. But I've noticed that any discussion of serious issues that might be important to all community residents are labeled as "noise" when the "wrong" viewpoints or questions are asked. At a time when a gang of list bullies is pretending that incivility here is driving them to censorship, you joined in support of the effort without offering disclosure. If you had been reading the list, you would have known that Mr. Cassidy and the small chorus of advocates for censorship on a Penn marketed site are indeed the core of a group of individuals who engage in group listserv bullying. They do the bullying against those who speak against some Penn policies and the incivility of their mates engaging in the listserv bullying. I can show you a powerful example when a couple of those whom would be banned stood up against truly disturbing behavior. A man was murdered in the neighborhood. With what seemed like perverse pleasure, Cassidy and this "civil" gang were making extremely disturbing callous jokes about the murder. These individuals who would be banned and do post with civility stood up to this perversity while those demanding civility were the abusive ones. In fact, one of the individuals identified to be banned is a model of civility while his character is attacked almost daily while the gang of the censored list cheers on! Had you been reading the list, you would know that the fallacious strategies of Mr Cassidy, the Penn employee with complete power and secrecy over the new list, and the gang have been thoroughly exposed and discredited. Because this is a free and uncensored list, neighbors exercising their duty as citizens exposed them just like they completely exposed Andrew Zitcer's ties to Penn! It was a serious lack of disclosure, and I hope Andrew too made a mistake. Your new post suggests you may understand why a Penn internet replacement of a neighborhood listserv, demanding censorship and control, is a threat to democratic principals in the twenty-first century??? The people you support want Penn to replace an extremely valuable community communication medium with one ruthlessly controlled and censored to support Penn policies. Jon these people look like bullies and propagandists. Penn is involved and unfortunately you have involved yourself and it appeared like Campus Philly. You're not just any employee; you are the director of Campus Philly? Please consider this request... I'd like to ask you for some help. I'd like to take a complaint about cloaking censorship directly to President Gutman's office. Penn is being used to promote censorship. Penn resources are being used to support and MARKET this new attempt at what seems like a larger pattern of neighborhood censorship. That is specifically what bothered me about Andrew's opinion piece not disclosing his connection in the issues. He was making an attempt to discredit those whose protest posters about Penn policies are mercilessly torn down by UCD? Really take a look at the censored site and the connections on a upenn.edu mailing list where it is titled "Residents of University City." I went to Penn too and worked at Penn or with Penn researchers for well over a decade. I don't want to see this shame for the University. A normal subscriber would have no chance to understand the censorship and banning that is protected information under Cassidy's control. The only clue is the warning that only Cassidy may know whom is subscribed. Could you set up a meeting with Andrew Zitcer, you, and Ira Harkavy to discuss this issue? I'd like to have my complaint considered by the university first. This is a very serious problem and it will bring shame and embarrassment to the University. I'd like the three of you to help make sure the complaint gets to the President's attention. Mr Cassidy immediately bragged about pre banning individuals. Even a cursory glance at our list archives will show you that civility can not possibly be the driving issue for this action. What message does this send to other "residents of University City?" Penn is already passively marketing this list as something it is not. When UCD and other resources do this as well, I believe the picture will be complete for the media to investigate. Thanks again for your reply, Glenn PS: Did you notice how civil the purple list is since the gang of bullies is lying low? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Herrmann To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 6:04 PM Subject: [UC] My Role with the List Serve All (particularly Glenn Moyer): There seems to be some confusion about my role with this list serve controversy. Here are my clarifications: 1 - I live in University City/ West Philly. The nonprofit I direct, Campus Philly, has nothing to do with my participation on this or any other list serve in West Philly. In fact, our offices are now in Center City. We do have a relationship with Penn, Drexel, USIP, and twenty other schools, but we are an independent nonprofit and we are strictly concerned with our mission to attract, engage, and employ college students in the city and region. 2 - I have never met Kyle Cassidy, and I once met Bruce Anderson. I am not in love with Kyle's new list and I am personally not in favor of any "new" list being on a Penn server. I do applaud Kyle for starting a new list because this list is very poorly organized, from my perspective, and I wish as a local resident for a more useful and less abused local list serve. My desire is for that list serve to be independent from Penn, despite the fact that I attended Penn, I contribute money to Penn, and on the whole I think Penn has done great work for the community. I think we are wasting resources by not using a universal service like Yahoo or Google that constantly adds new and useful community features. West Philly Freecycle is amazing, and simple, and not abused. But it is not a forum. 3 - There has been an idea publicly floated by Bruce Anderson to merge the "new" list with the PFSNI list. I have no opinion about the PFSNI list, except that it is significantly less abusive than the UnivCity list, and therefore I read the PFSNI list. I presume that Penn runs the list as a service to the community, as PFSNI stands for Penn Faculty, Students, Neighborhood, Something... I therefore presume that if the "community" wanted to "take it over," then people on that list and at Penn should get together and talk about it. 4 - The first time I ever spoke to anyone about this issue was my e-mail to UnivCity applauding the concept. I would not be writing about it publicly again if my company's name hadn't been alluded to in an e-mail. 5 - I am personally (solely on my own behalf, not on behalf of my organization, my wife, or my wife's synagogue) planning to participate in an offline conversation about the need for a better list. I will publicly let you know that I wish there were a better list in this community, but I do not have any negative wishes against this list. I will simply unsubscribe when there is a better alternative. If I can be helpful to anyone working to create a better community list serve, I am not embarrassed to offer that help. I don't think it is called a conspiracy when it is done publicly. Thank you, Jon Grabelle Herrmann ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.0/929 - Release Date: 7/31/2007 5:26 PM
