This is from a post of mine on July 29, 2007: ³Let¹s add to that the active recruiting of new members and/or diverting existing members to the new listserv, because the UC listserv has a bunch of, fill in the blank: crazies, cranks, belligerent non-viable entities with whom you would NEVER want to communicate and the sort of people who are just the fringe elements and not indicative of the wants of the ³real community.² or:
³Come to our listserv. You¹ll like it much better! You don¹t want to join the UC listserv because....² Well... I hate to say I told you so. On 8/2/07 9:44 AM, "FX Winkler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Soon it will be very quiet because the only ones left will be the loonies. > > Glenn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> Subject: [UC] My Role with the List Serve >> >> >> >> >> >> All (particularly Glenn Moyer): >> >> >> >> Thanks for your reply Jon. >> >> As with Andrew Zitcer¹s opinion piece in a citywide paper, you should have >> disclosed your close relationship with Penn power brokers and leadership of >> Campus Philly before I did it for you, and others did for Andrew on this >> list. I know you but there are other individuals, who are in fact caught up >> with some very distressing Penn initiatives. I don¹t think badly of you nor >> do I have any reason to believe your participation was anything but a >> mistake. I simply disclosed your connections and the timing in this very >> serious matter. Please consider this a good-natured reprimand. >> >> The issue is not about a lost kitty in the neighborhood so your disclosure >> was very important. >> >> You are not a known regular on the list. You came onto a neighborhood >> listserv with complaints about this open list, which serves as a serious >> medium for communication in this neighborhood. Common individuals have >> limited opportunities to freely communicate their ideas unlike Campus Philly >> or Penn. >> >> In recent news accounts, this list sticks out as being so important that the >> discussions are referenced. Some questionable characters with close ties to >> the UCD assert that discussions about topics like lost kitties must be the >> only topics here. Those posts are important too. But I've noticed that any >> discussion of serious issues that might be important to all community >> residents are labeled as "noise" when the "wrong" viewpoints or questions are >> asked. >> >> At a time when a gang of list bullies is pretending that incivility here is >> driving them to censorship, you joined in support of the effort without >> offering disclosure. If you had been reading the list, you would have known >> that Mr. Cassidy and the small chorus of advocates for censorship on a Penn >> marketed site are indeed the core of a group of individuals who engage in >> group listserv bullying. >> >> They do the bullying against those who speak against some Penn policies and >> the incivility of their mates engaging in the listserv bullying. I can show >> you a powerful example when a couple of those whom would be banned stood up >> against truly disturbing behavior. >> >> A man was murdered in the neighborhood. With what seemed like perverse >> pleasure, Cassidy and this "civil" gang were making extremely disturbing >> callous jokes about the murder. >> >> These individuals who would be banned and do post with civility stood up to >> this perversity while those demanding civility were the abusive ones. In >> fact, one of the individuals identified to be banned is a model of civility >> while his character is attacked almost daily while the gang of the censored >> list cheers on! >> >> Had you been reading the list, you would know that the fallacious strategies >> of Mr Cassidy, the Penn employee with complete power and secrecy over the new >> list, and the gang have been thoroughly exposed and discredited. Because this >> is a free and uncensored list, neighbors exercising their duty as citizens >> exposed them just like they completely exposed Andrew Zitcer¹s ties to Penn! >> It was a serious lack of disclosure, and I hope Andrew too made a mistake. >> >> Your new post suggests you may understand why a Penn internet replacement of >> a neighborhood listserv, demanding censorship and control, is a threat to >> democratic principals in the twenty-first century??? The people you support >> want Penn to replace an extremely valuable community communication medium >> with one ruthlessly controlled and censored to support Penn policies. >> >> Jon these people look like bullies and propagandists. Penn is involved and >> unfortunately you have involved yourself and it appeared like Campus Philly. >> You¹re not just any employee; you are the director of Campus Philly? >> >> Please consider this request... >> >> I¹d like to ask you for some help. I¹d like to take a complaint about >> cloaking censorship directly to President Gutman¹s office. Penn is being used >> to promote censorship. Penn resources are being used to support and MARKET >> this new attempt at what seems like a larger pattern of neighborhood >> censorship. >> >> That is specifically what bothered me about Andrew's opinion piece not >> disclosing his connection in the issues. He was making an attempt to >> discredit those whose protest posters about Penn policies are mercilessly >> torn down by UCD? >> >> Really take a look at the censored site and the connections on a upenn.edu >> mailing list where it is titled "Residents of University City." I went to >> Penn too and worked at Penn or with Penn researchers for well over a decade. >> I don¹t want to see this shame for the University. >> >> A normal subscriber would have no chance to understand the censorship and >> banning that is protected information under Cassidy's control. The only clue >> is the warning that only Cassidy may know whom is subscribed. >> >> Could you set up a meeting with Andrew Zitcer, you, and Ira Harkavy to >> discuss this issue? >> >> I¹d like to have my complaint considered by the university first. This is a >> very serious problem and it will bring shame and embarrassment to the >> University. I'd like the three of you to help make sure the complaint gets >> to the President's attention. >> >> Mr Cassidy immediately bragged about pre banning individuals. Even a cursory >> glance at our list archives will show you that civility can not possibly be >> the driving issue for this action. >> >> What message does this send to other "residents of University City?" Penn is >> already passively marketing this list as something it is not. When UCD and >> other resources do this as well, I believe the picture will be complete for >> the media to investigate. >> >> Thanks again for your reply, >> >> Glenn >> >> PS: Did you notice how civil the purple list is since the gang of bullies is >> lying low? >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: Jonathan Herrmann <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> To: [email protected] >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 6:04 PM >>> >>> Subject: [UC] My Role with the List Serve >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> All (particularly Glenn Moyer): >>> >>> >>> >>> There seems to be some confusion about my role with this list serve >>> controversy. Here are my clarifications: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1 - I live in University City/ West Philly. The nonprofit I direct, Campus >>> Philly, has nothing to do with my participation on this or any other list >>> serve in West Philly. In fact, our offices are now in Center City. We do >>> have a relationship with Penn, Drexel, USIP, and twenty other schools, but >>> we are an independent nonprofit and we are strictly concerned with our >>> mission to attract, engage, and employ college students in the city and >>> region. >>> >>> >>> >>> 2 - I have never met Kyle Cassidy, and I once met Bruce Anderson. I am not >>> in love with Kyle's new list and I am personally not in favor of any "new" >>> list being on a Penn server. I do applaud Kyle for starting a new list >>> because this list is very poorly organized, from my perspective, and I wish >>> as a local resident for a more useful and less abused local list serve. My >>> desire is for that list serve to be independent from Penn, despite the fact >>> that I attended Penn, I contribute money to Penn, and on the whole I think >>> Penn has done great work for the community. I think we are wasting resources >>> by not using a universal service like Yahoo or Google that constantly adds >>> new and useful community features. West Philly Freecycle is amazing, and >>> simple, and not abused. But it is not a forum. >>> >>> >>> >>> 3 - There has been an idea publicly floated by Bruce Anderson to merge the >>> "new" list with the PFSNI list. I have no opinion about the PFSNI list, >>> except that it is significantly less abusive than the UnivCity list, and >>> therefore I read the PFSNI list. I presume that Penn runs the list as a >>> service to the community, as PFSNI stands for Penn Faculty, Students, >>> Neighborhood, Something... I therefore presume that if the "community" >>> wanted to "take it over," then people on that list and at Penn should get >>> together and talk about it. >>> >>> >>> >>> 4 - The first time I ever spoke to anyone about this issue was my e-mail to >>> UnivCity applauding the concept. I would not be writing about it publicly >>> again if my company's name hadn't been alluded to in an e-mail. >>> >>> >>> >>> 5 - I am personally (solely on my own behalf, not on behalf of my >>> organization, my wife, or my wife's synagogue) planning to participate in an >>> offline conversation about the need for a better list. I will publicly let >>> you know that I wish there were a better list in this community, but I do >>> not have any negative wishes against this list. I will simply unsubscribe >>> when there is a better alternative. If I can be helpful to anyone working to >>> create a better community list serve, I am not embarrassed to offer that >>> help. I don't think it is called a conspiracy when it is done publicly. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Jon Grabelle Herrmann >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge >>> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47093/*http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222> to >>> see what's on, when. >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.0/929 - Release Date: 7/31/2007 >>> 5:26 PM > > > > > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47093/*http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222> to see > what's on, when.
