I think a version of Larrabee will be released soon -- though it's not
likely to be a graphics chip, it's most likely to be a
mini-supercomputer
on
a card.
The margins in that arena are much better than the margins in CPU's
right
now, so you can bet that Intel's going to go after it with some gusto.
OpenMCL and DirectX are our best bets for "standardized" API's. OpenGL
will
always be playing catchup, and DirectX will always be leading the way,
because Microsoft makes too much money from games to stop pushing
DirectX
as
much as it can, and OpenGL is a standard that requires a committee to
agree
on. The same committee that ensures that OpenGL is OpenGL also slows it
down
-- it's the tradeoff for standardization.
Threading in Python is a joke. I've done it, it's a waste of effort.
The
language is suitable only for embarrassingly parallel applications, and
that's it.
C++0x won't be usable by very many people -- especially the newer
programmers. It will be a fine language, but the people using it will
be
limited to supercomputer models, games, and the better 3D animation and
rendering software.
There are several modern programming languages that are placing a
strong
emphasis on parallel, multi-threaded, distributed, and functional
programming. In "mainstream" programming, applications will just get
buggier
and more bloated. In the smaller space of 3D software and games, we'll
see
some amazing stuff, probably in the next couple of years.
They're going to have no choice as far as standards -- there will be a
small
number of languages (my guess is OpenMCL + whatever Microsoft calls
theirs)
that will end up becoming pervasive, and anyone who wants to play will
have
to support them or be kicked to the curb.
Thanks -- I'm trying to get out of programming so that I can do more
with
3D
and photography. I've been out of 3D for too long, because I haven't
had
the
time to keep it up.
-----------------------------
Rakesh Malik
http://www.whitecranephotography.com
http://www.flickr.com/baratheon
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 6:22 AM, Jean-Sebastien Perron
<[email protected]>
wrote:
Wow really interesting Rakesh.
Larrabee won't be released soon, if released at all.
I hope you are right, I am eager for theses new features to be open
standard.
As a programmer, it's even difficult to use good old OpenGl/DirectX
mess.
Thankyou for that long response, If you know more tell us.
I will do further reading about the new GPU.
The new c++ standard ( C++0x) that will be revealed the next year,
will
support multi threading.
Like Python, most languages are now supporting parallel execution
directly
in the language.
OpenGL, DirectX, Larrabee, ATI, Nvidia, Mac, Linux, Win ... They will
never merge to any standard.
I really like your landscape pictures.
Jean-Sebastien Perron
www.CombadZ.com
On 10-07-20 02:34 AM, Rakesh Malik wrote:
GPU based renderers are most likely the future.
The Cell isn't it -- it's only somewhat parallel, and it's not
well-suited
to double precision arithmetic. It's a better suited to rendering than
to
gaming, but it's definitely nowhere near to being all that it's
cracked
up
to be.
The latest generation of GPU's from nVidia and AMD/ATI are, however,
exactly what you're describing -- massively parallel, with extremely
fast
buses, and with general-purpose computing engines rather than
dedicated
hardware to run shaders. The latest nVidia GPU's do double-precision
arithmetic well, which is specifically for high-performance computing.
The consistency isn't due to the GPU's being GPU's, it's because
general-purpose GPU's are relatively new, and there aren't any
standards
for
them yet. It will change, especially with programming languages for
them
becoming standardized.
Intel's Larabee processor is specifically geared toward
general-purpose
computing -- it's a collection of small, fast processors with very
fast
interconnects and it's well-suited to applications such as rendering.
And lastly... the reason that the industry is being so conservative
about
parallelism is that most programmers don't understand even the
simplest
issues in parallel programming -- how to partition and re-assemble
data,
handle node failures, mutual exclusion, resource contention, that sort
of
thing.
----------------------------
Rakesh Malik
http://www.whitecranephotography.com
http://www.flickr.com/baratheon
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Jean-Sebastien Perron
<[email protected]>
wrote:
GPU based renderer are doomed unless there is a open and documented
standard.
Like any hardware-dependent renderer they will fade over time.
It's sad that the the Cell processor was ignored by the industry.
The Cell in the hand of good old programmers (Assembler and c++) not
(scripters) could do so much.
I hate AMD and Intel and Arm and Motorolla,
The secret to faster computing is parallel work.
Like the hundreds of "Blitters" in the old arcade motherboard of the
80's.
Programming in parallel require thinking, and the industry is playing
it
safe.
We don't need 4 core we need 32 or 64 and more.
Simple core that only do floating point math vectoring.
Not all purpose crap like intel(int tel) like in integer.
GPU are useless in generating images, no 2 videocard produce the same
result.
What is important is math math math .... Vector and matrix nothing
else
And still to this day, only one processor in the world deliver that :
The
Cell
If I had the money of Bill Gate, In a year I would completely change
the
computer world.
Company are behaving like the petrol industry : holding technology,
and
improving slowly to make more money.
I would have thought that buy now we would not need to think about
computing speed.
The solution is so simple : (a really really simple RISC processor *
64)
+ a lot of memory inside the processor) in a single chip.
A computer in a chip, everything in a chip. No dedicated hardware or
instructions.
Actually not all of the above is true, but mostly true
Jean-Sebastien Perron
www.CombadZ.com
On 10-07-19 04:00 PM, aidan o driscoll wrote:
OR http://www.refractivesoftware.com/
Octane Render is the world's first GPU based, un-biased, physically
based renderer. €99
Bought this recently on offer - €49. Very nice renderer too. Use it
with
Modo!
Plugs for other apps being developed for this also ....
Aidan
On 19 July 2010 20:42, Neil Cooke<[email protected]> wrote:
Nice Archviz there Arfo!!!
Thanks
Neil Cooke
PS: I dont know enough about renderers to comment and RS does it Ok
for
me
... in my ignorance perhaps.
________________________________
From: Arjo Rozendaal<[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 20 July, 2010 6:36:03 AM
Subject: RE: Fryrender plugin support
Hi Jason,
I think Realsoft really needs a better render engine. But rendering
with
third party plugins would mean some serious changes. Solid objects
won't be
possible, everything will have to be turned into SDS/polygonal
objects.
VSL
will be of no use anymore. All the materials will have to be
created
to
work
with the render engine. I doubt if this is what most Realsoft users
like. I
always liked the special things of Realsoft like the VSL and solid
objects.
I'm afraid the mainstream production market is quite covered by the
other
apps. So I guess Realsoft is more for the users that like the
special
options.
However I must admit that these specialties have some severe
limitations. In
terms of production, VSL is far too technical and time consuming to
create
nice materials. Solids have limitations if you want to add bevels,
deform
them or things like that.
But if Vesa and Juha find some solution that could bring the high
quality
rendering to Realsoft without losing VSL and solids it would be
very
impressive.
Anyway, I'm even not sure if Fryrender is the best choise. I chose
Vray,
which is not an unbiased renderer lik Fry or Maxwell. But it's a
lot
faster.
And IMHO it renders very nice images too. But as always there are a
lot
of
different opinions when it comes to choosing a render app. And all
the
software galeries show the nicest results of their users. Here are
some
results of myself:
Two different interior projects I did this year (rendered with
Vray):
http://www.xs4all.nl/~joly/show/kantoor.html and
http://www..xs4all.nl/~joly/show/wrobel.html
Both completely different atmosphere in terms of style.
Modern/clean
office;
the other an private flat in Paris.
Arjo.
Van: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] Namens Jason Saunders
Verzonden: maandag 19 juli 2010 17:03
Aan: [email protected]
Onderwerp: Fryrender plugin support
Hi,
Any votes for development starting on a plug-in for using this
render
engine
in Realsoft ?
Seeing as all the other major and not so major 3D apps have it
supported,
makes sense to try and catch up me thinks.
www.randomcontrol.com/fryrender-gallery
Regards
Jason
