I've actually been lurking for a long time. :) I just discovered this: http://www.cebas.com/?pid=news_next&nid=378
So it's happening... I've been focussed more on photography lately, and not as much on CG, but I'm hoping to change that last part in the near future. I started programming with C and C++, did some work in Python, and in the end wound up not liking it much. I had a very frustrating experience inheriting some terrible Python code, and got tripped up by the whitespace (a misplaced tab broke the program I was working on). When I read about the Cell, I came away from what I read thinking that it was a terrible choice for a gaming platform, but a clever processor. I think that's been proven out, since the latest GPU's and Larrabee all have a lot in common with what ended up making the Cell such a great choice for video codecs and similar streaming applications. GPU's and Larrabee have a significant edge though -- a lot more cores. It's the professional "programmers" who are being left behind. The education process is getting dumbed down in order to get more graduates out the door -- by lowering the bar. It's sad, but fortunately there are still people who get into programming because they want to, and put in the effort to learn it well. My favorite languages are F# and C#. I like functional programming, and it's also good for distributed computing (which I don't have any opportunity to do these days). C# is just a great language to code in, and has very good tools to work with. It is likewise a pleasure to meet you also :) Point cloud rendering is new to me -- can you tell me more about it? ----------------------------- Rakesh Malik http://www.whitecranephotography.com http://www.flickr.com/baratheon On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Jean-Sebastien Perron <[email protected]>wrote: > Rakesh you are too good to be true. > Who are you? where do you come from? > It's the first time on this list that someone knows so much about > programming (or discuss about it) > > I am new to python, but an old c++ programmer. > I have some experience with Assembler, Amiga Intent, Basic, VB, TCL, Java, > Forth, RAPL, some retro console SDK, > Used to be a master at DirectX 8, now recently switched to openGL, openAL. > All the stuff I did in DirectX8 is now not working anymore. I hate DirectX. > Agree that openGL is slow in adopting new technologies. > DirectX will be left there when M$ dies at the hand of Android and other > more standard OS. > The future is not desktop, it's cell phone, ebook, whatever pad, consoles > etc. > > I did some test with the Cell processor, in an emulator. Read the complete > SDK a while ago. > The Cell is so easy to code for. > > I just checked openCL and it's a mess to watch. > I agree, the amateur programmer will be left behind in parallel processing. > Bugs won't be just memory leak, but process leak or lock. > > It's a pleasure to virtually meet you Rakesh > > I am stuck with programming, until I finish CombadZ. > 3D is now becoming a memory from the past. > > I would like to read a small review of Python by you. > And what is your favorite language and why? > > What is killing speed on CPU are altering flows conditions : IF > The best 3D algorithm must not have any conditions, just sequence of math. > The math must replace conditions. And memory bottleneck is still the > biggest problem. > > I believe the future of rendering is not polygon, but point cloud. > A lot of simple things. I have seen impressive demos at an expo recently. > > > Jean-Sebastien Perron > www.CombadZ.com > > On 10-07-20 12:24 PM, Rakesh Malik wrote: > > I think a version of Larrabee will be released soon -- though it's not > likely to be a graphics chip, it's most likely to be a mini-supercomputer on > a card. > > The margins in that arena are much better than the margins in CPU's right > now, so you can bet that Intel's going to go after it with some gusto. > > OpenMCL and DirectX are our best bets for "standardized" API's. OpenGL > will always be playing catchup, and DirectX will always be leading the way, > because Microsoft makes too much money from games to stop pushing DirectX as > much as it can, and OpenGL is a standard that requires a committee to agree > on. The same committee that ensures that OpenGL is OpenGL also slows it down > -- it's the tradeoff for standardization. > > Threading in Python is a joke. I've done it, it's a waste of effort. The > language is suitable only for embarrassingly parallel applications, and > that's it. > > C++0x won't be usable by very many people -- especially the newer > programmers. It will be a fine language, but the people using it will be > limited to supercomputer models, games, and the better 3D animation and > rendering software. > > There are several modern programming languages that are placing a strong > emphasis on parallel, multi-threaded, distributed, and functional > programming. In "mainstream" programming, applications will just get buggier > and more bloated. In the smaller space of 3D software and games, we'll see > some amazing stuff, probably in the next couple of years. > > They're going to have no choice as far as standards -- there will be a > small number of languages (my guess is OpenMCL + whatever Microsoft calls > theirs) that will end up becoming pervasive, and anyone who wants to play > will have to support them or be kicked to the curb. > > Thanks -- I'm trying to get out of programming so that I can do more with > 3D and photography. I've been out of 3D for too long, because I haven't had > the time to keep it up. > ----------------------------- > Rakesh Malik > http://www.whitecranephotography.com > http://www.flickr.com/baratheon > > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 6:22 AM, Jean-Sebastien Perron > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Wow really interesting Rakesh. >> >> Larrabee won't be released soon, if released at all. >> >> I hope you are right, I am eager for theses new features to be open >> standard. >> As a programmer, it's even difficult to use good old OpenGl/DirectX mess. >> >> Thankyou for that long response, If you know more tell us. >> I will do further reading about the new GPU. >> >> The new c++ standard ( C++0x <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B0x>) >> that will be revealed the next year, will support multi threading. >> Like Python, most languages are now supporting parallel execution directly >> in the language. >> >> OpenGL, DirectX, Larrabee, ATI, Nvidia, Mac, Linux, Win ... They will >> never merge to any standard. >> >> I really like your landscape pictures. >> >> >> Jean-Sebastien Perron >> www.CombadZ.com >> >> On 10-07-20 02:34 AM, Rakesh Malik wrote: >> >> GPU based renderers are most likely the future. >> >> The Cell isn't it -- it's only somewhat parallel, and it's not >> well-suited to double precision arithmetic. It's a better suited to >> rendering than to gaming, but it's definitely nowhere near to being all that >> it's cracked up to be. >> >> The latest generation of GPU's from nVidia and AMD/ATI are, however, >> exactly what you're describing -- massively parallel, with extremely fast >> buses, and with general-purpose computing engines rather than dedicated >> hardware to run shaders. The latest nVidia GPU's do double-precision >> arithmetic well, which is specifically for high-performance computing. >> >> The consistency isn't due to the GPU's being GPU's, it's because >> general-purpose GPU's are relatively new, and there aren't any standards for >> them yet. It will change, especially with programming languages for them >> becoming standardized. >> >> Intel's Larabee processor is specifically geared toward general-purpose >> computing -- it's a collection of small, fast processors with very fast >> interconnects and it's well-suited to applications such as rendering. >> >> And lastly... the reason that the industry is being so conservative >> about parallelism is that most programmers don't understand even the >> simplest issues in parallel programming -- how to partition and re-assemble >> data, handle node failures, mutual exclusion, resource contention, that sort >> of thing. >> >> >> ---------------------------- >> Rakesh Malik >> http://www.whitecranephotography.com >> http://www.flickr.com/baratheon >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Jean-Sebastien Perron <[email protected] >> > wrote: >> >>> GPU based renderer are doomed unless there is a open and documented >>> standard. >>> Like any hardware-dependent renderer they will fade over time. >>> >>> It's sad that the the Cell processor was ignored by the industry. >>> The Cell in the hand of good old programmers (Assembler and c++) not >>> (scripters) could do so much. >>> >>> I hate AMD and Intel and Arm and Motorolla, >>> The secret to faster computing is parallel work. >>> Like the hundreds of "Blitters" in the old arcade motherboard of the >>> 80's. >>> Programming in parallel require thinking, and the industry is playing it >>> safe. >>> >>> We don't need 4 core we need 32 or 64 and more. >>> Simple core that only do floating point math vectoring. >>> Not all purpose crap like intel(int tel) like in integer. >>> >>> GPU are useless in generating images, no 2 videocard produce the same >>> result. >>> What is important is math math math .... Vector and matrix nothing else >>> And still to this day, only one processor in the world deliver that : The >>> Cell >>> >>> If I had the money of Bill Gate, In a year I would completely change the >>> computer world. >>> Company are behaving like the petrol industry : holding technology, and >>> improving slowly to make more money. >>> I would have thought that buy now we would not need to think about >>> computing speed. >>> >>> The solution is so simple : (a really really simple RISC processor * 64) >>> + a lot of memory inside the processor) in a single chip. >>> A computer in a chip, everything in a chip. No dedicated hardware or >>> instructions. >>> >>> Actually not all of the above is true, but mostly true >>> >>> Jean-Sebastien Perron >>> www.CombadZ.com >>> >>> >>> On 10-07-19 04:00 PM, aidan o driscoll wrote: >>> >>>> OR http://www.refractivesoftware.com/ >>>> >>>> Octane Render is the world's first GPU based, un-biased, physically >>>> based renderer. €99 >>>> >>>> Bought this recently on offer - €49. Very nice renderer too. Use it with >>>> Modo! >>>> >>>> Plugs for other apps being developed for this also .... >>>> >>>> Aidan >>>> >>>> On 19 July 2010 20:42, Neil Cooke<[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Nice Archviz there Arfo!!! >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Neil Cooke >>>>> PS: I dont know enough about renderers to comment and RS does it Ok for >>>>> me >>>>> ... in my ignorance perhaps. >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: Arjo Rozendaal<[email protected]> >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Sent: Tue, 20 July, 2010 6:36:03 AM >>>>> Subject: RE: Fryrender plugin support >>>>> >>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think Realsoft really needs a better render engine. But rendering >>>>> with >>>>> third party plugins would mean some serious changes. Solid objects >>>>> won't be >>>>> possible, everything will have to be turned into SDS/polygonal objects. >>>>> VSL >>>>> will be of no use anymore. All the materials will have to be created to >>>>> work >>>>> with the render engine. I doubt if this is what most Realsoft users >>>>> like. I >>>>> always liked the special things of Realsoft like the VSL and solid >>>>> objects. >>>>> I'm afraid the mainstream production market is quite covered by the >>>>> other >>>>> apps. So I guess Realsoft is more for the users that like the special >>>>> options. >>>>> >>>>> However I must admit that these specialties have some severe >>>>> limitations. In >>>>> terms of production, VSL is far too technical and time consuming to >>>>> create >>>>> nice materials. Solids have limitations if you want to add bevels, >>>>> deform >>>>> them or things like that. >>>>> >>>>> But if Vesa and Juha find some solution that could bring the high >>>>> quality >>>>> rendering to Realsoft without losing VSL and solids it would be very >>>>> impressive. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, I'm even not sure if Fryrender is the best choise. I chose >>>>> Vray, >>>>> which is not an unbiased renderer lik Fry or Maxwell. But it's a lot >>>>> faster. >>>>> >>>>> And IMHO it renders very nice images too. But as always there are a lot >>>>> of >>>>> different opinions when it comes to choosing a render app. And all the >>>>> software galeries show the nicest results of their users. Here are some >>>>> results of myself: >>>>> >>>>> Two different interior projects I did this year (rendered with Vray): >>>>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~joly/show/kantoor.html<http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ejoly/show/kantoor.html>and >>>>> http://www..xs4all.nl/~joly/show/wrobel.html<http://xs4all.nl/%7Ejoly/show/wrobel.html> >>>>> >>>>> Both completely different atmosphere in terms of style. Modern/clean >>>>> office; >>>>> the other an private flat in Paris. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Arjo. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Van: [email protected] >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] Namens Jason Saunders >>>>> Verzonden: maandag 19 juli 2010 17:03 >>>>> Aan: [email protected] >>>>> Onderwerp: Fryrender plugin support >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Any votes for development starting on a plug-in for using this render >>>>> engine >>>>> in Realsoft ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Seeing as all the other major and not so major 3D apps have it >>>>> supported, >>>>> makes sense to try and catch up me thinks. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> www.randomcontrol.com/fryrender-gallery >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >
