I completely understand that it would be cool to have an all-in-one application.
It´s simply that this is unrealistic to expect from Realsoft. And let´s face it - there is not a SINGLE 3D package that combines ALL these features in one application. And there are reasons for that. 3Dstudio, Maya and Softimage for example depend on Mudbox. This makes sense because this way Autodesk doesn´t have to implement the same functionality in every single 3D-package. But even if your not the leading company of the industry this makes sense. Because you can target customers more precisely. If someone already uses a certain package and just wants sculpting capability, he doesn´t have to pay for a complete suite but instead just can buy the standalone sculpting package. On the other hand, if someone doesn´t need sculpting, he doesn´t have to pay for it. So I rather talk about compatibility. If RS3D had excellent im- and export and the basic tools needed to make it unproblematically compatible with, say, 3D-Coat, RS3D itself wouldn´t have to implement sculpting in the first place. Regards Martin -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:48:27 +0200 > Von: Juha Mukari <[email protected]> > An: [email protected] > Betreff: Understanding is the key word? RE: (Future...) Key word is > full-featured btw. > > Dont you understand it is frustrating to use lots of different softwares > for same thing... for 3d, like.. for modelling i have used also, silo, > cinema 4d and realsoft. > I also think that sculpting is one way to modell your 3d-modell, so it is > not seperated thing.. it is one way modell your 3d-modell and it is > frustrating to use different software for same process... for modelling. > > > > And what comes to all in one.. what makes it better... If everything is > integreated to one software it makes everything simple because then users' do > not need to consider that "is this software compatible with this software > etc.."... I know this thing and it is shitty thing when you need lots of > softwares and they aren't compatible with each other it is frustrating... > argh... Dont you know this issue? Isn't it familiar to you guys? > > I have used in my life about 200different softwares.. i have tried to > learn them and i know from this expierence that they aren't compatible with > each other. It dosent makes sense to use 5different software for one thing... > modelling, or animation, or simulation, or rendering... It dosent make > sense. > > > Oh, and btw. I am studing movie career in post production so i do know > that you need lots of softwares for editing and creating visual effects for > movies. > > > Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 06:30:23 +0100 > > From: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: (Future...) Key word is full-featured btw. > > To: [email protected] > > > > @Juha: I also think that you expect RS3D to become more than it could or > even should. > > I don´t think that RS3D should compete with every other mayor > competitor. > > And to be fair - not even the mayor packages offer all of the features > you proposed. > > Instead, for example, Autodesk has Mudbox to provide sculpting and > painting, and tries to establish it as part of the respective pipeline with > Autodesks products. > > And it makes sense. > > Of course it´s cool to have sculpting already integrated. > > But people who don´t need it possibly won´t be willing to pay an extra > few hundret or at least dozen bucks, just because this feature-suite was > integrated into RS3D. > > Whereas people who need sculpting can easily turn to a specialized > application like Sculptris, 3D-Coat, Mudbox oder Zbrush. > > Thus in my opinion in this case it makes sense to not spend the > ressources needed to implement full sculpting capabilities, but to instead > just > make sure that RS3D fits in a pipeline with already existing sculpting tools. > > And this would mean quick, easy and reliable UV-Mapping, -Import and > -Export, and possibly dedicated handling for respective materiallayers, so > that e.g. displacement-, diffuse- and specular-maps could easily be imported > and/or applied to a model, without having to reconfigure VSL-structures. > > > > When it comes to materials in general, RS3D already offers nearly all > that´s needed, at least when it comes to the code. > > It´s really just the graphical user interface and the amount and > structuring of presets, that would have to be changed. > > It could pretty easily be done to make a complete material with boxes > and sliders just like in Modo or Cinema 4D (by the way, in my opinion Modo > does it better than C4D), that would be loaded as a standard template; for > example > > In my opinion, it is about the number of this exact (already existing!) > templates that you can choose from when building a new material; it´s that > these should be expanded and be presented in a way more central to the > material-interface. > > This would mean more, and better, of the material "compounds" that e.g. > control Fresnel effects, subsurface scattering, etc., and a better handling > of them. > > > > > > Now, based on the criteria that I presented in the last mail, I > personally would consider the following features important/"most wise" to be > worked > upon. > > > > > > _Rendering and materials_ > > RS3D has a powerful material system. But if render-quality or -features > do not suffice, users switch to other renderers, meaning that these > powerful capabilities of RS3D go unused, and a reason to use RS3D at all > disappears with them too. > > So RS3Ds capabilities here should really be improved, so that people see > RS3D as an alternative for rendering again. > > Specifically I would improve: > > > > - GI > > Because RS3D lags so much behind in this respect, while it has a > potentially very powerful material and rendering system; making GI better > would > complement these strengths. > > As already said, even freeware renderers are lightyears ahead of RS3D in > this respect. > > Another reason why I consider a better GI important is architectural > visualisation. > > I´ve seen and read much about this and RS3D in the past, and it seems > that RS3D has a bigger foothold with architecture visualizers than with > other kinds of users. > > And as I understand it, a quick and simple GI is of utmost importance to > these users. > > IES lightdata functionality would of cause also be a nice thing for > them. > > > > - VSL/materials > > Because it is one of the great strenghts of RS3D. > > VSL should be expanded with new compounds and templates, it NEEDS a good > SSS template/material, it NEEDS a good and quick way to produce blurry > reflections and refractions and ambient occlusion. > > A nodebased editor for advanced material control would be sweet, and > about time, but if this wasn´t integrated, the GUI would at least HAVE to be > updated to offer an improved workflow through e.g. multiselection and easy > management of VSL-components in general. > > Other suggestions have been written in the section above. > > However - improving VSL should make it more intuitive and approachable, > reassuring current users and appealing more to possible customers. > > > > > > > > _Modelling and texturing_ > > Modelling also is one of the great strengths of RS3D, especially it´s > NURBS->SDS workflow capability plus CSG and it´s general SDS tools and > handling. > > Texturing on the other hand, and UV-Mapping in special, rather lack ease > of use, power, and reliability. > > These are critical for inter-operability though, so for RS3D to be > considered to be part of a pipeline, these parts of the software should be > improved. > > On the other hand, SDS capabilities of other programs have improved > vastly in the last ten years, and some already outrun RS3D when it comes to > polygon-modelling and SDS. > > > > - Polygon modelling and SDS > > This could be fixed though, and also pretty easily, I guess. > > There are only a few tools that I really miss here, mostly "loop > slice","loop slide", more indepth beveling options, easy cleaning up of a > mesh, > and a more flexible and dynamic selection-sets/-groups system. > > In general, RS3D is well suited for hard surface modelling, but has > problems with modelling/altering and managing bigger, more complex polygon > models. > > Modo for example has way more tools to handle those. > > > > - Modelling in general > > Like for example curve-based deformations, and even inserting a profile > along a given loop of a polygon model. > > The latter is probably a pretty advanced feature, but curve-based > deformations are already offered by RS3D with the scale/move/size 1D/2D/3D > tools; > they just don´t work right. > > Or at least I haven´t gotten them to work like they should have EVEN > ONCE. > > And that´s a shame, because they are such a powerful feature. > > Indeed there are a couple of modelling tools in RS3D that are powerful > but awkward to use. > > To improve these tools, to make them easy and intuitive to use, > shouldn´t be much of an effort, but would improve RS3Ds modelling > capabilities a > big deal. > > Rather it would even really enable the average user (I consider myself > an average user for that purpose) to really use these features for the first > time. > > > > - UV-Mapping > > It´s terrible in RS3D. It´s unintuitive and lacks features. Easy UV > im- and export? Nope. > > As said, this way RS3Ds compatibility is greatly hindered, which is > extremely bad for RS3D. > > Cause if an application already doesn´t offer all that a user needs, it > should at least enable him to use it in conjunction with another > application. > > UV-Mapping DEFINITELY has to be vastly improved. > > > > > > > > _Animation and simulation > > I can´t say to much about that, because I don´t use it. > > It seems though that a disturbingly great amount of users desperately > wants these to be updated. > > Accordingly they should be. > > If Carlo could get Chrono ready, this would take the need for an > improvement of RS3Ds inbuilt system. As was already said, Chrono could even be > integrated into RS3D, making it an excellent choice for more technically > oriented users. Would also be no problem to sell a RS3D Standard and a > RS3D+Chrono bundle. > > Particle Rendering has also been often debated and should accordingly be > tended to. > > Animation is a field which I can´t say anything decent about. But as > said, many other users have. > > > > > > > > So all in all there would be a few bigger improvements to be made, with > many smaller ones that would nonetheless impact RS3D very much. > > Personally I consider improved GI, VSL/materialcreation and > UV-mapping/-handling to be most important. > > > > But I would be interested in how YOU think about my priorities, criteria > and explanations - am I mistaken? How does RS3Ds userbase look in your > opinion, and what new features do you consider MOST important? > > I mean, perhaps we could make a list, get all the suggestions together, > and assign "levels" of importance to them, so Realsoft could see on one > page (or so) what features the users desire the most? > > > > > > Greetz > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > > > Datum: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:32:24 -0500 > > > Von: Jean-Sebastien Perron <[email protected]> > > > An: [email protected] > > > Betreff: Re: (Future...) Key word is full-featured btw. > > > > > In the industry, they don't use 1 software but ell over 20 softwares > for > > > a single movie. > > > RS can do everything, but it is not specialized. > > > > > > In my own project I have used Vue for trees, VistaPro for the terrain, > > > Gimp for texture, UVmapper Pro for texture placement, Silo for some > > > modeling and all that imported in Realsoft. > > > For character animation I would use something more specialized. > > > > > > Don't care if GI is fake as long as it looks good. > > > > > > Personally, the only weakness of realsoft is IK for character > animation. > > > > > > Do you think that one day, a company will make a software that is > > > definitive (no improvement needed)? > > > I does everything you can think of easily. > > > Or are we condemned > > > > > > Jean-Sebastien Perron > > > www.NeuroWorld.ws > > > > > > On 10-11-11 06:14 PM, leee wrote: > > > > On Thursday 11 Nov 2010, Juha Mukari wrote: > > > > [snip...] > > > > > > > >> I think it this way: realsoft could raise their software's price > > > >> really much if they would make it so great software that you > > > >> wouldn't need any other softwares if you got realsoft. > > > >> > > > > I think that this sentence, on it's own, says a lot, and I think it > > > > raises two important issues. > > > > > > > > The first is that I don't think that RS want to raise their prices: > > > > their ethos seems to be to try to provide the best combination of > > > > features and quality for a moderate price, and by doing so, make > > > > those features and quality more accessible i.e to those on a > > > > limited budget. > > > > > > > > The second issue is that if RS were to take on more people, to > > > > provide more features etc, and then raise their price, who would > > > > buy it? There are already many other established players in the > > > > high-cost region of 3D software, so why would their existing users, > > > > who will have years of learning and experience invested in their > > > > existing 3D packages, bother to switch to RS? > > > > > > > > Like anything else you might buy, RS is a trade-off, a compromise > > > > between price and functionality/capability. > > > > > > > > If price is of no importance to you, why are you using RS when you > > > > could simply pay a lot more money and use something else? > > > > > > > > Sure, RS isn't perfect, but then nothing else is either; everything > > > > is a compromise, and like I said in an earlier post, you pays your > > > > money and makes your choice. If you don't think that RS is good > > > > value for money then spend your money elsewhere but don't complain > > > > that you haven't got a Rolls Royce when you've only paid the price > > > > of a Ford. > > > > > > > > LeeE > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 €/mtl.! Jetzt auch mit > > gratis Notebook-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl > -- GRATIS! Movie-FLAT mit über 300 Videos. Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome
