Some perspective from someone who went through something similar with Apache Aurora:

It's not as simple as electing new committers. It takes time to develop the trust needed to add new members to the PMC, and that's the most important aspect of keeping the project going under Apache (my opinion/experience). Apache rules dictate that there must be 3 *active* PMC members at all times.

Anything that the project does requires at least 3 PMC members to give a +1. What happened to us in Aurora was that we got to a place where people didn't want to see it die so we kept putting off moving the Apache version of the project to the Attic and rebooting as a standalone project.

There were several reasons for eventually moving the project to the Attic but the most important one being we ran out of folks with enough history with the project to step into the PMC role. The folks that did step up, through no fault of their own, did not have the time to dedicate to the project (I can only imagine Mesos demands way more time than Aurora behind the scenes).

So all official operations ended up taking for ever due to the challenge of finding the minimum number of votes, the overhead of writing reports about the project status (not a huge burden, but someone has to do it), and eventually, it was impossible to do anything. It was consistently back to square one and trying to find PMC candidates until none were left.

And then it basically becomes a bootstrapping problem as Charles-François Natal is experiencing right now. That is to say, you can't get new contributors to shepherd into committer and into the PMC if you don't have an active PMC.

I'm not saying Aurora is/was as popular of a project as Mesos, but I am saying the reality is that it's hard to find the right folks to take the reins this late in the game. Especially when so many qualified contributors are moving on.

Given the circumstances, including Vinod looking to step down and D2iQ sunsetting Mesos, and with many of the former contributors moving on, I very much agree with Benjamin Bannier suggestion to move the project into the Attic.

If someone still has the keys to , an option would be to revive that org and continue quality of life updates to Mesos there.


On 2/18/21 10:49 AM, Tomek Janiszewski wrote:
I think we can elect new committers. Currently we have 49 but most of them have left the project long ago.

czw., 18 lut 2021 o 18:18 Charles-François Natali < <>> napisał(a):

    Speaking as someone who contributed a few patches and would like
    to get more involved, I find it a bit difficult to get MRs
    reviewed and merged.
    I think it's probably because the current committers have other
    priorities now that D2iQ focus has shifted, which is
    understandable but makes it harder for outsiders to contribute.
    Is there anything which could be done about that?


    On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 14:30 Qian Zhang, <
    <>> wrote:

        Hi Vinod,

        I am still interested in the project. As other folks said, we
        need to have a direction for the project. I think there are
        still a lot of Mesos users/customers in the mail list, can you
        please send another mail to collect their requirements / pain
        points on Mesos, and then we can try to set up a roadmap for
        the project to move forward.

        Qian Zhang

        On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 9:16 PM Andrei Sekretenko
        < <>> wrote:

            IIUC, Attic is not intended for projects which still have
            active users
            and thus might be in need of fixing bugs.

            Key items about moving project to Attic:
            > It is not intended to:
            > - Rebuild community
            > - Make bugfixes
            > - Make releases

            >Projects whose PMC are unable to muster 3 votes for a
            release, who have no active committers or are unable to
            fulfill their reporting duties to the board are all good
            candidates for the Attic.

            As a D2iQ employee, I can say that if we find a bug
            critical for our
            customers, we will be interested in fixing that. Should
            the project be
            moved into Attic, the fix will be present only in forks
            (which might
            mean our internal forks).

            I could imagine that other entities and people using Mesos
            are in a
            similar position with regards to bugfixes.
            If this is true, then moving the project to Attic in the
            near future
            is not a proper solution to the issue of insufficient
            bandwidth of the
            active PMC members/chair.

            A long-term future of the project is a different story,
            which, in my
            personal view, will "end" either in moving the project
            into Attic or
            in shifting the project direction from what it used to be
            in the
            recent few years to something substantially different.
            IMO, this
            requires a  _separate_ discussion.

            Damien's questions sound like a good starting point for that
            discussion, I'll try to answer them from my committer/PMC
            perspective when I have enough time.

            On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 at 12:49, Charles-François Natali
            < <>> wrote:
            > Thanks Tomek, that's what I suspected.
            > It would therefore make it much more difficult for
            anyone to carry on since it would effectively have to be a
            fork, etc.
            > I think it'd be a bit of a shame, but I understand
            Benjamin's point.
            > I hope it can be avoided.
            > Cheers,
            > On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 11:02 Tomek Janiszewski,
            < <>> wrote:
            >> Moving to attic is making project read only
            >> czw., 18 lut 2021, 11:56 użytkownik Charles-François
            Natali < <>>
            >>> I'm not familiar with the attic but would it still
            allow to actually
            >>> develop, make commits to the repository etc?
            >>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 08:27 Benjamin Bannier,
            < <>> wrote:
            >>> > Hi Vinod,
            >>> >
            >>> > > I would like to start a discussion around the
            future of the Mesos
            >>> > project.
            >>> > >
            >>> > > As you are probably aware, the number of active
            committers and
            >>> > contributors
            >>> > > to the project have declined significantly over
            time. As of today,
            >>> > there's
            >>> > > no active development of any features or a public
            release planned. On the
            >>> > > flip side, I do know there are a few companies who
            are still actively
            >>> > using
            >>> > > Mesos.
            >>> >
            >>> > Thanks for starting this discussion Vinod. Looking
            at Slack, mailing
            >>> > lists, JIRA and reviewboard/github the project has
            wound down a lot in
            >>> > the last 12+ months.
            >>> >
            >>> > > Given that, we need to assess if there's interest
            in the community to
            >>> > keep
            >>> > > this project moving forward. Specifically, we need
            some active committers
            >>> > > and PMC members who are going to manage the
            project. Ideally, these would
            >>> > > be people who are using Mesos in some capacity and
            can make code
            >>> > > contributions.
            >>> >
            >>> > While I have seen a few non-committer folks
            contribute patches in the
            >>> > last months, I feel it might be too late to
            bootstrap an active
            >>> > community at this point.
            >>> >
            >>> > Apache Mesos is still mentioned prominently in the
            docs of a number of
            >>> > other projects which gives off the impression of an
            active and
            >>> > maintained project. In reality almost nobody is
            working on issues or
            >>> > available to help users, and basing a new project on
            Apache Mesos these
            >>> > days is probably not a good idea. I honestly do not
            see that to change
            >>> > should new people step up and IMO the most honest
            way forward would be
            >>> > to move the project to the attic to clearly
            communicate that the project
            >>> > has moved into another phase; this wouldn't preclude
            folks from using or
            >>> > further developing Apache Mesos, but would give a
            clear signal to users.
            >>> >
            >>> > > If there is no active interest, we will likely
            need to figure out steps
            >>> > for
            >>> > > retiring the project.
            >>> > >
            >>> > > *Call for action: If you are interested in
            becoming a committer/PMC
            >>> > member
            >>> > > (including PMC chair) and actively maintain the
            project, please reply to
            >>> > > this email.*
            >>> >
            >>> > Like I wrote above, I would be in favor of a vote to
            move Apache Mesos
            >>> > to the attic.
            >>> >
            >>> >
            >>> > Cheers,
            >>> >
            >>> > Benjamin
            >>> >

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