I have found the webtools, which have been greatly enhanced in the last few year, to be a benefit in this area.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] sent the following on 9/25/2007 9:16 PM: > David > > I expect you are right, especially as I have spent most of my time digging > through source code instead of learning Ofbiz in detail from a users > perspective. However, I think it can only be helpful to document exactly > what each of these fields that are not self-explanatory do. I know it will > help me when I deliver this from gettig a million support phone calls. > > Skip > > -----Original Message----- > From: David E Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:44 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init() > catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed: > java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available) > > > > Just a general thought: if better terms for things in OFBiz can be found I > think everyone will be very open to changing them. > > Usually what happens, based on experience with clients, is they are actually > thinking of something different than the concept used in OFBiz and so the > change in the term causes more problems than it helps... and telling them > what it means and how it is different (usually less granular) than what they > were imagining was more effective. > > -David > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Jonathon >> >> "I'm currently attempting to document ALL of those terms...". I am happy > to >> help with this because I would rather not spend gobs of hand-holding time. >> I expect to go live with my first customer in about 2 months and they will >> have to live with a majority of the functionality in its current state. A >> "jargon dictionary" would be very helpful to them. >> >> I have 20 years experience with these folks and have written two > accounting >> applications used by hundreds of users over that time, so I "think" I have > a >> fair understanding of the terminolgy in the industries I have served. It > is >> my experience that GL, A/P and A/R are fairly generic. Beyond that, the >> lingo begins to diverge. >> >> If you will give me a list of the modules you haven't done yet, maybe we > can >> split the load and feed the result back to the community. >> >> Skip >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:04 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init() >> catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed: >> java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available) >> >> >> Skip, >> >> I agree with you, as will many other VARs who have taken up OFBiz. >> >> I'm currently attempting to document ALL of those terms, everything OFBiz >> but above the framework. >> After that, I'll be approaching the real world (not the OFBiz world) to >> tally the facts and >> figures, and to get a good list of the discrepancy between "OFBiz world" > and >> "real world". Such a >> "mapping" between OFBiz and the real world will make it MUCH easier for me >> to talk to future clients! >> >> As it is now, more than half of my projects required some work to > gravitate >> OFBiz towards the real >> world. In particular, accounting is a major void. Payment processing has >> some holes too. >> >> > That is why I say that it is probably uneconomical to train people >> > to use Ofbiz OOTB. It is, I think, more economical to rewrite the >> > UI using terms understood by the people using them. >> >> Definitely. All of my projects required that. Changing the UI. >> >> I'm not saying which ERP terminologies are de facto or "best practice". > It's >> just a real world >> observation. >> >> Either OFBiz moves towards the real world, or vice versa. There are some >> clients who say they want >> to follow best practices, and they want to try going with the "OFBiz way > of >> doing things". >> >> Whatever we do, I think it'll be fun to focus on channeling all we got > into >> OFBiz and make it more >> viable in the real world. Well, unless OFBiz overtakes the number one ERP >> system. :) >> >> Jonathon >> >> Skip wrote: >>> Tim >>> >>> Gads, seems as if I hit a nerve. My apologies. Let me respond briefly. >>> >>> "Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB". >>> My ability to use Ofbiz OOTB is not the issue here. I am a software >>> engineer, not the end user. I will not be using it except for testing. I >> am >>> implementing it now for two mid-sized businesses with three to follow. >>> >>> It is my view that with few exceptions, the back office Ofbiz >> applications, >>> are not designed for the real people to use. As some examples, go to > your >>> friendly neighborhood corporate office and ask the A/R, A/P or manager >> type >>> person the meaning of these terms: >>> Logical Id, Facility Type ID, Empl Position Type Id, Manual Auth Is >> Capture, >>> Order Enum Id, To Geo, Validate G C Fin Acct, Contact Mech, Reason Enum, >>> etc. etc. >>> If that person can correctly identify the purpose of any of them (and > they >>> have not used Ofbiz before), I would be very surprised. I would actually >> be >>> surprised if you know all of them off the top of your head. These are a >> few >>> of the ones I copied and pasted from various places in the Ofbiz back >> office >>> applicatons. There are hundreds more. To use these applications OOTB, >> the >>> person using it has to be educated on the meaning of what is mostly >> jargon. >>> Remember too that some of these applications are rarely used, but > critical >>> when needed. >>> >>> That is why I say that it is probably uneconomical to train people to use >>> Ofbiz OOTB. It is, I think, more economical to rewrite the UI using > terms >>> understood by the people using them. >>> >>> By the way, I do not mean to be derogatory here. I have evaluated lots > of >>> ERP applications for the folks I represent, both opensource and >> commercial. >>> Ofbiz is the best of them all (or will be when I am done) and I am >> committed >>> to providing them a world-class set of applications based on it. >>> >>> What I am trying to do is get those involved in the development to think >>> about the people who actually use the product in the end, the A/R-A/P >>> clerks, the shipping and recieving people, the CPAs, the purchasing >> agents, >>> the sales folks, and all the rest. >>> >>> Let me also say thanks for the work that you and all those who contribute >>> have done. >>> >>> Skip >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Tim Ruppert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:07 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init() >>> catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed: >>> java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available) >>> >>> >>> Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB, >>> but I must disagree that it is uneconomical to have people running their >>> business on it. However, it may be uneconomical for newbies to be able to >>> get their foot in the door and pop one up quickly without a lot of ramp > up >>> on the existing processes. >>> >>> >>> Anything that needs to be discussed about Opentaps - should move to >> their >>> mailing list - this just isn't a sales channel for migrating people over >>> there. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Tim >>> -- >>> Tim Ruppert >>> HotWax Media >>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com >>> >>> >>> o:801.649.6594 >>> f:801.649.6595 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 25, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Skip wrote: >>> >>> >>> Jacopo >>> >>> >>> Not to be argumentative, but I would say that Ofbiz is not "an Open >>> Source >>> ERP system that can be used out of the box." ERP as you know is an >>> acronym >>> for Enterprise Resource Planning. If you had said that Ofbiz is a >> great >>> ecommerce application that can be used out of the box, I would agree >>> wholeheartedly. However, it lacks a lot on the resource planning > side. >> I >>> would also say that the training time to bring casual backoffice > users >>> up to >>> speed is beyond considerable (possibly uneconomical). >>> >>> >>> As Walter said, Opentaps goes a LONG way toward filling the holes and >>> making >>> it earier for real people to use. Both products however need >>> considerable >>> customization to make them suitable for the majority of medium sized >>> businesses. >>> >>> >>> It is though perfect for VARs like me. >>> >>> >>> My two $. >>> >>> >>> Skip >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jacopo Cappellato [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:42 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init() >>> catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed: >>> java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Walter Vaughan wrote: >>> Len Parker wrote: >>> >>> >>> I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute >>> "java -jar ofbiz.jar": >>> >>> >>> What does "java -version" say? >>> Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script? >>> >>> >>> Regarding your boss... >>> If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are >>> looking for. >>> >>> >>> OFBiz is *not* just a framework; it is an Open Source ERP system that >>> can be used out of the box. >>> Of course, but this is true for all the ERP systems, including >>> commercial ones, most of the companies will want to customize it to >> fit >>> their custom/special/niche processes and OFBiz is *great* in this: >>> developing/customizing using OFBiz's entities, services and widgets > is >>> efficient and easy. >>> There are still some areas that are not fully implemented, the most >>> remarkable one is the accounting application: we will hopefully fill >>> this gap soon. >>> >>> >>> Jacopo >>> >>> >>> If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing >>> dashboards, built in Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal >>> with >>> GPL style license software you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE: >>> This >>> is not a sales pitch for opentaps, just a heads up that there are >>> options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are looking for >>> something >>> to show the pointy headed boss). >>> >>> >>> Welcome aboard! >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Walter >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.30/1030 - Release Date: >> 9/25/2007 8:02 AM >> >> > > > >
