De : "David E Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Have you read through "The Data Model Resource Book(s)"? They don't have 
> everything in them, but are extremely helpful for getting
the general concepts.
Mandatory.

You may also have a look at 
http://docs.ofbiz.org/display/OFBENDUSER/Undersun+Doc+Site+PDF+Exports

Jacques

>
> -David
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > David
> >
> > I expect you are right, especially as I have spent most of my time digging
> > through source code instead of learning Ofbiz in detail from a users
> > perspective.  However, I think it can only be helpful to document exactly
> > what each of these fields that are not self-explanatory do.  I know it will
> > help me when I deliver this from gettig a million support phone calls.
> >
> > Skip
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David E Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:44 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
> > catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
> > java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)
> >
> >
> >
> > Just a general thought: if better terms for things in OFBiz can be found I
> > think everyone will be very open to changing them.
> >
> > Usually what happens, based on experience with clients, is they are actually
> > thinking of something different than the concept used in OFBiz and so the
> > change in the term causes more problems than it helps... and telling them
> > what it means and how it is different (usually less granular) than what they
> > were imagining was more effective.
> >
> > -David
> >
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> Jonathon
> >>
> >> "I'm currently attempting to document ALL of those terms...".  I am happy
> > to
> >> help with this because I would rather not spend gobs of hand-holding time.
> >> I expect to go live with my first customer in about 2 months and they will
> >> have to live with a majority of the functionality in its current state.  A
> >> "jargon dictionary" would be very helpful to them.
> >>
> >> I have 20 years experience with these folks and have written two
> > accounting
> >> applications used by hundreds of users over that time, so I "think" I have
> > a
> >> fair understanding of the terminolgy in the industries I have served.  It
> > is
> >> my experience that GL, A/P and A/R are fairly generic.  Beyond that, the
> >> lingo begins to diverge.
> >>
> >> If you will give me a list of the modules you haven't done yet, maybe we
> > can
> >> split the load and feed the result back to the community.
> >>
> >> Skip
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Jonathon -- Improov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:04 PM
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
> >> catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
> >> java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)
> >>
> >>
> >> Skip,
> >>
> >> I agree with you, as will many other VARs who have taken up OFBiz.
> >>
> >> I'm currently attempting to document ALL of those terms, everything OFBiz
> >> but above the framework.
> >> After that, I'll be approaching the real world (not the OFBiz world) to
> >> tally the facts and
> >> figures, and to get a good list of the discrepancy between "OFBiz world"
> > and
> >> "real world". Such a
> >> "mapping" between OFBiz and the real world will make it MUCH easier for me
> >> to talk to future clients!
> >>
> >> As it is now, more than half of my projects required some work to
> > gravitate
> >> OFBiz towards the real
> >> world. In particular, accounting is a major void. Payment processing has
> >> some holes too.
> >>
> >>  > That is why I say that it is probably uneconomical to train people
> >>  > to use Ofbiz OOTB.  It is, I think, more economical to rewrite the
> >>  > UI using terms understood by the people using them.
> >>
> >> Definitely. All of my projects required that. Changing the UI.
> >>
> >> I'm not saying which ERP terminologies are de facto or "best practice".
> > It's
> >> just a real world
> >> observation.
> >>
> >> Either OFBiz moves towards the real world, or vice versa. There are some
> >> clients who say they want
> >> to follow best practices, and they want to try going with the "OFBiz way
> > of
> >> doing things".
> >>
> >> Whatever we do, I think it'll be fun to focus on channeling all we got
> > into
> >> OFBiz and make it more
> >> viable in the real world. Well, unless OFBiz overtakes the number one ERP
> >> system. :)
> >>
> >> Jonathon
> >>
> >> Skip wrote:
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >>> Gads, seems as if I hit a nerve.  My apologies.  Let me respond briefly.
> >>>
> >>> "Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB".
> >>> My ability to use Ofbiz OOTB is not the issue here.  I am a software
> >>> engineer, not the end user. I will not be using it except for testing.  I
> >> am
> >>> implementing it now for two mid-sized businesses with three to follow.
> >>>
> >>> It is my view that with few exceptions, the back office Ofbiz
> >> applications,
> >>> are not designed for the real people to use.  As some examples, go to
> > your
> >>> friendly neighborhood corporate office and ask the A/R, A/P or manager
> >> type
> >>> person the meaning of these terms:
> >>> Logical Id, Facility Type ID, Empl Position Type Id, Manual Auth Is
> >> Capture,
> >>> Order Enum Id, To Geo, Validate G C Fin Acct, Contact Mech, Reason Enum,
> >>> etc. etc.
> >>> If that person can correctly identify the purpose of any of them (and
> > they
> >>> have not used Ofbiz before), I would be very surprised.  I would actually
> >> be
> >>> surprised if you know all of them off the top of your head.  These are a
> >> few
> >>> of the ones I copied and pasted from various places in the Ofbiz back
> >> office
> >>> applicatons.  There are hundreds more.  To use these applications OOTB,
> >> the
> >>> person using it has to be educated on the meaning of what is mostly
> >> jargon.
> >>> Remember too that some of these applications are rarely used, but
> > critical
> >>> when needed.
> >>>
> >>> That is why I say that it is probably uneconomical to train people to use
> >>> Ofbiz OOTB.  It is, I think, more economical to rewrite the UI using
> > terms
> >>> understood by the people using them.
> >>>
> >>> By the way, I do not mean to be derogatory here.  I have evaluated lots
> > of
> >>> ERP applications for the folks I represent, both opensource and
> >> commercial.
> >>> Ofbiz is the best of them all (or will be when I am done) and I am
> >> committed
> >>> to providing them a world-class set of applications based on it.
> >>>
> >>> What I am trying to do is get those involved in the development to think
> >>> about the people who actually use the product in the end, the A/R-A/P
> >>> clerks, the shipping and recieving people, the CPAs, the purchasing
> >> agents,
> >>> the sales folks, and all the rest.
> >>>
> >>> Let me also say thanks for the work that you and all those who contribute
> >>> have done.
> >>>
> >>> Skip
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   -----Original Message-----
> >>>   From: Tim Ruppert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>   Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:07 AM
> >>>   To: [email protected]
> >>>   Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
> >>> catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
> >>> java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   Skip you may not have the expertise in general to use it close to OOTB,
> >>> but I must disagree that it is uneconomical to have people running their
> >>> business on it. However, it may be uneconomical for newbies to be able to
> >>> get their foot in the door and pop one up quickly without a lot of ramp
> > up
> >>> on the existing processes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   Anything that needs to be discussed about Opentaps - should move to
> >> their
> >>> mailing list - this just isn't a sales channel for migrating people over
> >>> there.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   Cheers,
> >>>   Tim
> >>>   --
> >>>   Tim Ruppert
> >>>   HotWax Media
> >>>   http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   o:801.649.6594
> >>>   f:801.649.6595
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   On Sep 25, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Skip wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     Jacopo
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     Not to be argumentative, but I would say that Ofbiz is not "an Open
> >>> Source
> >>>     ERP system that can be used out of the box." ERP as you know is an
> >>> acronym
> >>>     for Enterprise Resource Planning. If you had said that Ofbiz is a
> >> great
> >>>     ecommerce application that can be used out of the box, I would agree
> >>>     wholeheartedly. However, it lacks a lot on the resource planning
> > side.
> >> I
> >>>     would also say that the training time to bring casual backoffice
> > users
> >>> up to
> >>>     speed is beyond considerable (possibly uneconomical).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     As Walter said, Opentaps goes a LONG way toward filling the holes and
> >>> making
> >>>     it earier for real people to use. Both products however need
> >>> considerable
> >>>     customization to make them suitable for the majority of medium sized
> >>>     businesses.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     It is though perfect for VARs like me.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     My two $.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     Skip
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     -----Original Message-----
> >>>     From: Jacopo Cappellato [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>     Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:42 AM
> >>>     To: [email protected]
> >>>     Subject: Re: org.ofbiz.base.start.StartupException: Cannot init()
> >>>     catalina-container (Protocol handler initialization failed:
> >>>     java.io.IOException: SunX509 KeyManagerFactory not available)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     Walter Vaughan wrote:
> >>>       Len Parker wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>         I'm a newbie, and I get the following error when I execute
> >>>         "java -jar ofbiz.jar":
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>       What does "java -version" say?
> >>>       Why are you not using ./startofbiz.sh shell script?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>       Regarding your boss...
> >>>       If you need a strong framework to build upon, OFBiz is what you are
> >>>       looking for.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     OFBiz is *not* just a framework; it is an Open Source ERP system that
> >>>     can be used out of the box.
> >>>     Of course, but this is true for all the ERP systems, including
> >>>     commercial ones, most of the companies will want to customize it to
> >> fit
> >>>     their custom/special/niche processes and OFBiz is *great* in this:
> >>>     developing/customizing using OFBiz's entities, services and widgets
> > is
> >>>     efficient and easy.
> >>>     There are still some areas that are not fully implemented, the most
> >>>     remarkable one is the accounting application: we will hopefully fill
> >>>     this gap soon.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     Jacopo
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>       If you need CRM functionality, warehouse and purchasing
> >>>       dashboards, built in Business Intellegence tools, and you can deal
> >>> with
> >>>       GPL style license software you might also look at Opentaps. (NOTE:
> >>> This
> >>>       is not a sales pitch for opentaps, just a heads up that there are
> >>>       options in the OFBiz world, especially if you are looking for
> >>> something
> >>>       to show the pointy headed boss).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>       Welcome aboard!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>       --
> >>>       Walter
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.30/1030 - Release Date:
> >> 9/25/2007 8:02 AM
> >>
> >>
> >
>

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