On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Nick Rosser <[email protected]> wrote:
> OK, some interesting points being made. Although I truly believe that for > a bet-your-business solution like OFBiz having a list of users and service > providers is much more important than for "technical" based projects. It > certainly would be for me. > > Pierre established that some of the other projects do have links to this > type of info -- and made some good points about being in favor of this type > of change. > > Given that there are 3 in favor (me, Pierre, Jacques), 1 against (Jacopo) > and 1 neutral (Christian) -- what is the procedure for making a decision on > this change? > > Anyone else in the community have any additional thoughts? > > I too would agree this is a good idea. I am more likely to use a product that is widely used, especially for this kind of product. Who in his right mind would bet his key business processes on a product like this if it is not widely used? But, contrary to what is suggested above, I apply that consideration to all products, including especially primarily technical products (e.g. number crunching libraries, compilers, &c.). I am wary of using a product that is used only by the developer, or team thereof, that developed it. If this can be provided on the website you're discussing, great. If there is some kind of administrative problem with doing that, then perhaps someone can take the bull by the horns as it were and create a site that provides it, and takes responsibility to add a link to it in, e.g. a sig to all his/her email sent to this list. The bottom line, here, is that it ought no tbe necessary to resort to google just to find out who is using OFBiz, how many such users there are, and who are the service providers who help businesses use it. Cheers Ted > BTW: just to throw it out there -- would this change be easier to make if > we did not modify the primary navigation area and added the 2 links to the > "Resources and Tools" section? > > Nick > > > On 2/18/2014 6:08 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: > >> As for the marketing aspect, linking works both ways. >> >> Looking at the homepage of OFBiz I see that marketing is done for various >> websites . Beside the fact that there is a potential thread of violation >> of >> the rights of others, it could be regarded as applying double standards. >> >> Regards, >> >> Pierre Smits >> >> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>* >> Services& Solutions for Cloud- >> Based Manufacturing, Professional >> Services and Retail& Trade >> http://www.orrtiz.com >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Pierre Smits<[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Having done a cursory review of websites of other Apache Projects I can >>> state that we are not creating a precedent here. >>> >>> As for the possibility of potentially conveying the impression that the >>> community or the ASF are officially supporting implementation and support >>> providers this can be easily corrected with a statement at the top of the >>> document(s). As for the remark regarding approving any content this can >>> be >>> said of anything posted in any document the project controls, e.g. >>> mailing >>> lists postings. >>> >>> Regarding violating trademark policies of ASF it is so that the >>> foundation >>> has sufficient means (and procedures) at its disposal to take corrective >>> measures. If there are violations of such policies, then these should be >>> addressed. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Pierre Smits >>> >>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>* >>> Services& Solutions for Cloud- >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional >>> Services and Retail& Trade >>> http://www.orrtiz.com >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Jacopo Cappellato< >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On Feb 17, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Nick Rosser<[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> So what's the final word on this? >>>>> >>>>> Seems like we have mostly "yeahs" for this change. >>>>> >>>> This doesn't seem an accurate summary of the feedback received: Jacques >>>> and Pierre expressed a positive feedback; Christian seems neutral; I am >>>> against; no one else expressed an opinion yet. >>>> It is really too early to come up to such a conclusion. >>>> >>>> Can we get it done? >>>>> >>>> I understand that companies are interested in getting free marketing >>>> (SEO >>>> etc..) from independent and authoritative sources like the official >>>> OFBiz >>>> site and the ASF in general, and this adds some pressure on the OFBiz >>>> PMC >>>> and project. However, as I already stated, I will be against any >>>> changes, >>>> e.g., adding a link on the "top menu", that may convey the impression >>>> that >>>> the project officially supports or even approves any content on which >>>> there >>>> is no control, e.g., the content of wiki documents. >>>> >>>> Specifically, the links you want to add in the top menu point to the >>>> following documents: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/ >>>> Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/ >>>> Apache+OFBiz+User+List >>>> >>>> for which there is no control or rules on who, what and how information >>>> can be published, and there are links that potentially violate the >>>> trademarks policy of OFBIZ and ASF. >>>> After a cursory review of the content of these documents I would be even >>>> tempted to propose the removal of the links from the documentation page, >>>> rather than adding them to the top menu (and I am a bit surprised to see >>>> that a PMC member may be in favor of adding them there). >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Jacopo >>>> >>>> Nick >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/2014 5:45 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It shouldn't prove to difficult to have menu items in the menu bar of >>>>>> >>>>> the >>>> >>>>> website that directly link to pages in the wiki. >>>>>> >>>>>> Pierre Smits >>>>>> >>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://www.orrtiz.com>* >>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud- >>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional >>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade >>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Jacopo Cappellato< >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The project doesn't have much control over the information published >>>>>>> >>>>>> in >>>> >>>>> the wiki and we should not publish links in the official website that >>>>>>> >>>>>> may >>>> >>>>> imply that these pages are official. In the past we had issues and >>>>>>> discussions around what was published in the official website and the >>>>>>> current website is the result of those. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jacopo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Jacques Le Roux< >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think you have a point Nick, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We could add those without expecting load issues on Confluence >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> indeed. >>>> >>>>> Jacques >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, February 07, 2014 4:06 PM, [email protected] wrote >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pierre: "attract some more participation" -- exactly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I did see a response about the original change to omit these from >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the >>>> >>>>> home page - I can't imagine that we have enough traffic to stress >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> any >>>> >>>>> server. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If there is general agreement who can make the change? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2014 3:53 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I agree with the above. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Not only will it deliver on the marketing aspect, but it might >>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> attract >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> some more participation. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM<http://ORRTIZ.COM>* >>>>>>>>>> Services& Solutions for Cloud- >>>>>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional >>>>>>>>>> Services and Retail& Trade >>>>>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Jacques Le Roux< >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That sounds a good marketing idea to me >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This was a bit like that before, >>>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=925066 >>>>>>>>>>> But has been moved down because of conflicting opinions. I don't >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> remember >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> clearly... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What are others opinions? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jacques >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 05, 2014 2:40 PM, [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever I look at pretty much anything these days I look for a >>>>>>>>>>>> "clients" link to see who is using a product or service. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If I'm looking to use a piece of software and review at the >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> vendor's >>>> >>>>> site I will often look to see who are the partners (integrators) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as a client I would be looking for some comfort level that the >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> product >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> or service will well supported. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> For OFBiz this is hidden under the "documentation" tab, at the >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> bottom of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> that page, in small font and labelled "Users of Apache OFBiz".and >>>>>>>>>>>> "Apache OFBiz Service Providers". Documentation to me is just >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> that, a >>>> >>>>> list of user and technical documentation, white papers etc. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Could these two links to main navigation bar? I would suggest >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>> >>>>> the >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> main navigation is: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Home >>>>>>>>>>>> Download >>>>>>>>>>>> Community >>>>>>>>>>>> Service Providers >>>>>>>>>>>> Who is using OFBiz? >>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Nick >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> -- R.E.(Ted) Byers, Ph.D.,Ed.D. [email protected] CTO Merchant Services Corp. 17665 Leslie st., unit 30 Newmarket , Ontario L3Y 3E3
