Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
Ted Husted wrote:
On 3/14/06, Frank W. Zammetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
but I to this day do not believe it was the motivation of the larger
entities involved.
True. If those "larger entities" had any say, we wouldn't be merging
with WebWork. If anyone wanted proof that we are making our decisions
based on community, rather than the agenda of a "larger entity", there
it is.
No argument there :)
This is where I do happen to disagree with you Ted. As I said earlier,
Struts has become something more to a great many people. Many
businesses rely on Struts. Many peoples' livelihoods depend on Struts.
I hope you would agree with those statements. Because of that, you
take on a greater responsibility than simply contributing.
No. The people you mention should take on the greater responsibility
of contributing to the project and doing what they can to make Apache
Struts a continued success.
I know I'm getting involved in this too late and maybe the thread has
died down. The thing is that I was reading through this thread today
(quite interesting stuff) and it mirrors stuff I've been thinking about.
I think here we have to agree to disagree. I see there being a
responsibility involved that you don't. It isn't like anyone can just
come along and contribute, contrary to what we might want people to
believe, because there is a barrier to entry, namely those already
involved. AND THAT IS FINE. In fact, it *has* to be that way because
the alternative is just opening up commit privileges to SVN to anyone
and everyone, and clearly *that* isn't a good idea :)
You say this as if it is the most obvious thing in the world. But is it?
I am quite skeptical. You take as a given that commit privileges have to
be closely guarded, like a high priesthood guards the inner sanctum.
What is the basis for really believing this? The idea, AFAICS (you can
clarify) is that if you let "anyone and everyone" commit code, they will
commit all kinds of low-quality stuff willy-nilly. My own experience
running open-source projects has been that the vast majority of times
that you give somebody commit rights to the code repository, they simply
do nothing -- good or bad. When they do something, they are typically
quite conservative initially since they are aware that they are new kids
on the block and the others are watching closely.
In any case, I recently wrote a blog entry about this kind of stuff.
http://freemarker.blogspot.com/2006/02/musings-on-wikipedia-and-open-source.html
BTW, as regards the overall topic of discussion, I don't know whether
JSF will be the next big thing or not. I have not the foggiest idea.
OTOH, I do have an opinion about the Action/Shale cohabitation. My
opinion, looking at the Struts community and website and the rest with
newbie eyes is that this is disastrous. I think that any project has to
have some coherent message and a person who visits your website and
starts looking at the mail archive and so on has to be able to figure
out quite quickly "WTF is struts" and to have such an incoherent message
due to this Action/Shale bifurcation seems very negative. It just seems
complicated and confused.
Well, to put it another way, if I were assigned the task of evaluating
different things in this space, and Struts was one of them, it is very
unlikely that I would settle on it. I would almost certainly end up
opting for a non-schizophrenic alternative.
I don't know how other people see things. This is just my honest
reaction. I have no vested interest in this.
Regards,
Jonathan Revusky
--
lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
But, being part of that necessary barrier too is part of the
responsibility, at least as I view things.
Deciding what is best for other people is a job better left to the
"larger entities". Our role is to create the frameworks that we want
to use to build our own applications, and share the wealth, best we
can.
Agreed, 100%. It's *after* you've shared that wealth and that wealth
has turned into something bigger that I believe the responsibility comes
in to play. I'm sorry to hear you don't agree, but I never said it
wasn't a debatable point :)
Right now, this year, for me, that framework is Action2. But, who
knows, next year, I could be working on a JSF project. And, if I am,
I'll be glad to find a Struts Shale framework here, ready for me to
use.
Same here. Believe me, I *want* Shale to continue to develop. Same for
JSF. Same for Spring MVC, same for Wicket, etc. We can debate whether
Shale is in the right place or not, but to me, it's existence is in no
way questioned... it's a good thing!
-Ted.
Frank
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