Hi Sebastien,

Your points are noted; The plan is to make backups a first class citizen, so 
their lifecycle is somewhat independent of the VM of that they are based on.
Users will be able to choose between policies (as defined by the vendor/Cloud 
Operator), ad-hoc backups and scheduled backups (the same as snapshots).
Users will have to opt-in to any backup regime, so they are free to use client 
backup agents if they chose, ultimate it would be good to include support for 
those, but it is considerably more complicated, so out of scope for the moment.

I hope this answers your thoughts.

53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London  WC2N 4HSUK

-----Original Message-----
From: Sebastian Gomez [mailto:tioc...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 14 February 2018 17:49
To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Re: Customer Backup with CS 4.7 and VMWare

Thank you Paul, its a good proposal.

This is a really piece to get a global solution. I think that it should be 
treated like load balancer, where Cloudstack offers a simple, but useful 
solution, and Cloudstack allows to integrate dedicated solutions like F5.
In fact, Cloudstack just offers a global solution, snapshots. This is a very 
basic solution, but is a solution.

Would be great that Cloustack allow integration with solutions like Veeam 
(p.ex). The connector (configured by cloud administrators) would allow users to 
include each vm, and manage the recover from the cloudstack console (something 
similar to the current VM snapshot management). And still more difficult: what 
happen with deleted VMs? How to interact with ... whatever ... to recover a 
virtual machine that just does not exists on CS.

But meanwhile, general solutions (like veeam) does not allow to delegate on 
users their own backups.
We have some clients that uses backup agents on their virtual machines using 
their own backup services (like EMC Networker).

@Simon Weller: Ceph, also sounds great...

What else?


Sebastián Gómez

On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Paul Angus <paul.an...@shapeblue.com> wrote:

> Hi All, particularly Daniel, Sebastian and Simon,
> We, as a community are very much aware of the shortfalls in 'backup 
> and recovery' options available natively in CloudStack - which is 
> basically 'do volume snapshots'.
> Quite a while back, I published a high-level proposal of what I 
> thought that a backup and recovery
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=70258
> 527
> I've continued to work on it, and am current speaking to a couple of 
> backup vendors in order to have a framework concept that they will 
> work with.
> Hopefully within a few weeks I'll be able to publish a substantive 
> proposal for everyone to see and comment on.
> Stay tuned
> paul.an...@shapeblue.com
> www.shapeblue.com
> 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London  WC2N 4HSUK @shapeblue
> -----Original Message-----
> From: daniel.herrm...@zv.fraunhofer.de [mailto:daniel.herrmann@zv.
> fraunhofer.de]
> Sent: 07 February 2018 14:35
> To: users@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: Customer Backup with CS 4.7 and VMWare
> Hi All,
> We are using CS 4.7.1 with VMWare Hypervisor and advanced networking in a
> private cloud environment. Currently, most of our (internal) customers
> hosting internal services within this environment are using volume
> snapshots to facilitate backups of their virtual machines. Besides the
> obvious downsides of this approach (consistent snapshots of multiple
> volumes, …) we encounter serious problems using this features. In ~10% of
> the cases, snapshots get stuck in the BackingUp state, which sometimes
> causes the whole snapshot queue to stale. In some other cases, recurring
> snapshots are correctly configured, but CS does not try even try to create
> this snapshot, there is no entry in the database.
> In summary, we are currently evaluating different options, hence my
> questions here:
>   *   Are we the only ones encountering that massive problems with volume
> snapshots? Or is this a known problem? Anything we could look at or a hint
> where we could start troubleshooting?
>   *   How are you actually providing backup services to the customer? Are
> there other solutions or products that integrate with CS?
> When using another option than the volume snapshots in CS, the most
> important factor would be to keep the ability for the customer to configure
> everything in self-service.
> Thanks and regards
> Daniel

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