Hi :) As far as i know there are 2 projects producing multi-platform installers on Dvd but only English and German languages https://www.libreoffice.org/download/ I'm fairly sure there must be ones in other languages. I can't believe Brasil hasn't got one (for example)!
A little earlier in the thread someone mentioned that OpenOffice had several in several different languages. My guess is that those were done by local volunteers, possibly with the help of local users groups. Those are probably done for LibreOffice now, or for both. It's unlikely (but possible) that they stuck with just OpenOffice. So, if you can contact the Italian Local User Group then you might be able to prod someone there into giving better information. Regards from Tom :) On 30 November 2013 20:04, Paolo Debortoli <paolo_debort...@yahoo.com> wrote: > about formats. for european users, they should know that the european law > imposes the usage of the same data sructures and formats for every public > administration in the continent. they concluded that the only one solution is > using open formats. worth noting that ms adopted a kind of xml data format, > but it is clearly not an open format (they try still to lock people inside > their data formats, see the problems when you try to open a docx file). > > as I see in the italian experience, many municipalities, regional government > and universities are moving to open source software (last but not least for > budget problems) and libreoffice is slowly becoming a success (a good news, > because it can be a new standard to replace ms office), but there are still > resistances (even from vendors, system administrators, users). > > many people are not aware of the things.... success cases, contributions, > comments could be more known..... is there still a multi platform > installation dvd ? > > > > > On Saturday, November 30, 2013 1:40 PM, Tom Davies <tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: > > Hi :) > The main points i was making are that > 1. It has NOT been 13 years of failure due to marketing the software. > Most of that time the marketing (in the US and England) has been > minimal or non-existant. Under TDF that changed. So it's only really > valid to talk about the last 3 years rather than the last 13. In the > last 3 years there has been a lot of success. > > 2. Marketing the format instead of marketing the software is unlikely > to get anywhere. > > People who write a letter almost never know what format it's in and > they don't care. At best they might say "Word format" as though there > is only one and that one doesn't change. On this list we all know > that is very far from the truth because we see the result of that more > often than most other mailing lists. > > > It's interesting about expanding the "we" to include other > organisations and governments. If each organisation did do a little > to promote the format, perhaps placing it 3rd or 4th in their list of > priorities, then it would do a LOT to get the format much more widely > recognised. Possibly more recognised than any of the individual > organisations pushing it. I was only thinking of the 1 organisation, > TDF. Plus i was only thinking of the number 1 spot of what gets > promoted. Inevitably 2 or 3 other things get mentioned along the way > even if it's just as side issues. > > Regards from > Tom :) > > > > > On 30 November 2013 10:38, Charles-H. Schulz > <charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org> wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> Le Sat, 30 Nov 2013 09:22:32 +0000, >> Tom Davies <tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit : >> >>> Hi :) >>> My thought is that we need to promote >>> 1. LibreOffice first >>> 2. other programs that can use the format as their native format >>> 3. the format >>> 4. the community >>> 5. the fact that even MS Office's most recent versions can read/write >>> the format too now >>> 6. ethical issues >>> In roughly that order. I don't think people who need to write letters >>> are always particularly interested in anything other than just finding >>> a program that can do the job. >>> >>> >>> The marketing team have decided to promote the community as the >>> product that people "buy into" (for free) but i think a lot of people >>> will continue to see the product as being the program. I think they >>> are going to confuse people with their current policy. >>> >>> I don't think it's wrong to promote the community or the format but >>> from what i have seen people try the program first and then sometimes >>> find those other things are an extra benefit. >> >> Tom, you're making some good points above, but I think that we may not >> be talking about the same thing. As a member of the marketing team, I >> cannot just say that we should stop promoting the "product" or rather >> the software as you rightly call it. I don't think we ever will. But >> when we are pushing to advocate the community this strategy exists >> because of specific goals and because we know that LibreOffice, as a >> software and as a product, cannot be marketed as an off the shelf >> product or even a "traditional"software. When you go down the path of >> "productivising" a software that's open source and developed by a >> community, you either do this because the software fulfills some very >> specific needs and some very specific niche, or you don't, because just >> like LibreOffice, you have twenty different kind of audiences, a whole >> set of complex or simple features appealing to, well, pretty much the >> entire planet, and that there can be no question of "product >> positioning" because you simply don't have enough funds and because the >> software caters to the needs of millions of people, businesses and >> governments. >> >> I've used some marketing terms here intently. But the point is that we >> have decided to shift the focus to community promotion, but not to >> forget about promoting software, keeping in mind that 1) nobody reads >> the release notes 2)the users' needs tend to be evolving over time 3) >> the financial dept wants to use their macros 4) we won't engage in >> endless pseudo marketing discussions such as "how should we position >> LibreOffice"? 5) it should be a fun thing to do anyway. >> >> >>> >>> Promoting the format alone doesn't seem to work. People have immense >>> trouble finding >>> File - "Save As ..." >>> It's tooo geeky for a lot of people. They click on the Save button >>> and have no idea where it's being saved or what format it's in. >>> Windows hides the format for all file-types by default so very few >>> people understand anything about formats. >> >> Yes that's true. Open Standards are crucial; however, good luck >> explaining this to the large majority of people who think a word >> document is MS Word the software. >> >>> >>> Promoting the software alone doesn't work either. Although, to be >>> fair, it is going a LOT better under TDF than it went under Sun. Sun >>> seemed reticent about promoting OOo in the USA, England and possibly >>> other countries that have English as the supposedly dominant language. >>> Under TDF LibreOffice is becoming more widely known about. Unlike >>> Sun, TDF is managing to get into fairly mainstream articles in fairly >>> mainstream press. So it's really Sun's total lack of advertising and >>> promotion that had been holding OOo/LO/AOO back for the first decade. >>> Rather than choosing a wrong direction they chose NONE and that is >>> what led us nowhere. >> >> Thanks for the nice words here but I think that it's probably more >> complex than that; and I am not alone thinking we must do much more in >> these geographies. >> >>> >>> As LibreOffice usage rises so does usage of the format. But usage of >>> the format follows. It doesn't lead the way. Most of us started by >>> trying to stick with MS formats, perhaps even setting the defaults to >>> MS formats (i did that). After a while each of us begins to realise >>> that it's not the optimum format and so we gradually change to keeping >>> originals in ODF and only using MS ones to share with outsiders. Soon >>> we are going to be able to use ODF to share with outsiders. >>> >>> Three years ago some people would write to this list or comment under >>> articles to say that LibreOffice didn't have something they wanted so >>> they would "have to" return to MS Office. A tad irksome because we >>> would often find the functionality did exist or that same end-result >>> could be obtained by some more efficient route. Those few people had >>> just found it easier to spend more time registering and writing a >>> grumble rather than bothering to spend any effort looking up how to do >>> the task. >>> >>> Nowadays people write in to apologise that they have had to return to >>> OpenOffice or that they are going to try out Kingsoft Office (because >>> it has a ribbon-bar) or something else. It's becoming very rare to >>> see people saying they have to return to MS Office. >>> >>> To me that seems a very positive step in the right direction. Once >>> people have been freed from MS it doesn't really matter which program >>> they are using or even which format they use. It's only MS that makes >>> their own format so troublesome. Step away from MS and suddenly >>> people have less trouble sharing with other people using any other >>> non-MS program. >>> >>> >>> So, when people claim to have trouble with LO about something it's >>> good to encourage them to use any of the many alternatives. Just find >>> out what their main "must have" is and find something that does have >>> it. >>> * If their main "must have" a ribbon-bar then Kingsoft Office seems a >>> reasonable choice, apparently it's available for Gnu&Linux >>> * If their "must have" is Cloud then Google-docs or Google-drive, or >>> whatever it is called now. Note that Google are one of the supporters >>> of TDF and might even be on the Advisory Board >>> * If their "must have" is that it works well on lower spec machines >>> then "Gnome Office" (AbiWord and/or Gnumeric). Gnumeric is also a >>> good choice if they want a more powerful spreadsheet program than >>> Excel/Calc >>> * Android and iThings are the only one don't know of a good choice >>> for yet Most of those people will return to LibreOffice because it's >>> better. Some might wait until LO offers their "must have" or return >>> when they upgrade their machine. >>> >> >> Keep in mind, these must haves are evolving. I have had one guy from a >> French Ministry telling me for years about macro compatibility and >> overnight dumping that point in favor of online collaboration.... >> >>> >>> So, i don't think we can lead by promoting the format alone. I think >>> we have to promote on a few fronts at the same time. Any good >>> tactician will know that attacking on more than one front at a time is >>> risky. Promoting the community first is probably not a bad plan >>> because that leads to all the other issues quite neatly. >> >> Yes and it also -supposedly- grows the community, therefore growing the >> resources, etc. >> >>> >>> >>> So Marco's personal beef with "continuing to promote the software >>> ahead of the format" kinda misses the point that we never really put >>> any effort into promoting the program. Any such effort used to be >>> severely hampered by Sun. Promoting the program does seem to have >>> worked a LOT better in the last 3 years than it worked in the >>> preceding decade. We seem to be getting somewhere at last! >> >> Marco's points are in my own opinion not to be discarded as such. >> However I believe that Marco mixes marketing and the strategy of an >> ecosystem. Should we push for the format first? Only if the "we" in >> that sentence is TDF + IBM + XYZ Government + ASF + Google + Mozilla >> +.... anybody else. And then it ought to mean there are a budget, >> communication campaigns, coordinators, business developers etc. Mind >> you, it's expensive, but that's how you would do it, independently of >> each entity's own software, therefore the Document Foundation, alone, >> cannot do that as its sole mantra.. >> >> Best, >> >> Charles. >> >> >>> Regards from >>> Tom :) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 30 November 2013 06:40, M. Fioretti <mfiore...@nexaima.net> wrote: >>> > On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 21:57:50 PM +0000, Paolo Debortoli wrote: >>> > >>> >> hi. I work in a state school, using ms windows and ms office... i >>> >> think I know the policy of microsoft. I think they use a sort of >>> >> (apparent) programmed obsolescence for the software. >>> > >>> > Hi Paolo, and... NO. Not the software. They use programmed >>> > obsolescence for the FILE FORMAT, see >>> > >>> > http://stop.zona-m.net/2013/11/shall-we-waste-twelve-more-years-promoting-free-office-suites-instead-of-open-office-formats/ >>> > >>> >> why don't they change ? they don't know enough about LibreOffice; >>> >> they would need demonstrations or some training >>> > >>> > training to learn the different position of the same buttons and >>> > functions is a waste of money, it's a shame that it is still >>> > considered an option. The real training should be in other areas, >>> > regardless of what software is used, see the post above. >>> > >>> >> other software producers (autodesk) are doing similar things... >>> >> schools are good marketing targets... ideas? >>> > >>> > let's not waste other years promoting software before common >>> > formats. Apart from that, thanks for mentioning Autodesk, excellent >>> > example of the fact that MS is neither the only, nor the worst >>> > player of the "proprietary format" game. THat is a very general >>> > issue. >>> > >>> > Marco >>> > -- >>> > >>> > M. Fioretti http://mfioretti.com >>> > http://stop.zona-m.net >>> > >>> > Your own civil rights and the quality of your life heavily depend >>> > on how software is used *around* you >>> > >>> > -- >>> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >>> > Problems? >>> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >>> > Posting guidelines + more: >>> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: >>> > http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent >>> > to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Charles-H. Schulz >> Co-founder, The Document Foundation, >> Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin >> Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts >> Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint >> Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24. > >> >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> Problems? >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >> deleted >> > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
