------>8=======
>>> Le Sat, 30 Nov 2013 09:22:32 +0000,
>>> Tom Davies <[email protected]> a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Hi :)
>>>> My thought is that we need to promote
>>>> 1. LibreOffice first
>>>> 2. other programs that can use the format as their native format
>>>> 3. the format
>>>> 4. the community
>>>> 5. the fact that even MS Office's most recent versions can
>read/write
>>>> the format too now
>>>> 6. ethical issues
>>>> In roughly that order. I don't think people who need to write
>letters
>>>> are always particularly interested in anything other than just
>finding
>>>> a program that can do the job.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The marketing team have decided to promote the community as the
>>>> product that people "buy into" (for free) but i think a lot of
>people
>>>> will continue to see the product as being the program. I think
>they
>>>> are going to confuse people with their current policy.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think it's wrong to promote the community or the format but
>>>> from what i have seen people try the program first and then
>sometimes
>>>> find those other things are an extra benefit.
>>>
>>> Tom, you're making some good points above, but I think that we may
>not
>>> be talking about the same thing. As a member of the marketing team,
>I
>>> cannot just say that we should stop promoting the "product" or
>rather
>>> the software as you rightly call it. I don't think we ever will. But
>>> when we are pushing to advocate the community this strategy exists
>>> because of specific goals and because we know that LibreOffice, as a
>>> software and as a product, cannot be marketed as an off the shelf
>>> product or even a "traditional"software. When you go down the path
>of
>>> "productivising" a software that's open source and developed by a
>>> community, you either do this because the software fulfills some
>very
>>> specific needs and some very specific niche, or you don't, because
>just
>>> like LibreOffice, you have twenty different kind of audiences, a
>whole
>>> set of complex or simple features appealing to, well, pretty much
>the
>>> entire planet, and that there can be no question of "product
>>> positioning" because you simply don't have enough funds and because
>the
>>> software caters to the needs of millions of people, businesses and
>>> governments.
>>>
>>> I've used some marketing terms here intently. But the point is that
>we
>>> have decided to shift the focus to community promotion, but not to
>>> forget about promoting software, keeping in mind that 1) nobody
>reads
>>> the release notes 2)the users' needs tend to be evolving over time
>3)
>>> the financial dept wants to use their macros 4) we won't engage in
>>> endless pseudo marketing discussions such as "how should we position
>>> LibreOffice"? 5) it should be a fun thing to do anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Promoting the format alone doesn't seem to work. People have
>immense
>>>> trouble finding
>>>> File - "Save As ..."
>>>> It's tooo geeky for a lot of people. They click on the Save button
>>>> and have no idea where it's being saved or what format it's in.
>>>> Windows hides the format for all file-types by default so very few
>>>> people understand anything about formats.
>>>
>>> Yes that's true. Open Standards are crucial; however, good luck
>>> explaining this to the large majority of people who think a word
>>> document is MS Word the software.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Promoting the software alone doesn't work either. Although, to be
>>>> fair, it is going a LOT better under TDF than it went under Sun.
>Sun
>>>> seemed reticent about promoting OOo in the USA, England and
>possibly
>>>> other countries that have English as the supposedly dominant
>language.
>>>> Under TDF LibreOffice is becoming more widely known about. Unlike
>>>> Sun, TDF is managing to get into fairly mainstream articles in
>fairly
>>>> mainstream press. So it's really Sun's total lack of advertising
>and
>>>> promotion that had been holding OOo/LO/AOO back for the first
>decade.
>>>> Rather than choosing a wrong direction they chose NONE and that is
>>>> what led us nowhere.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the nice words here but I think that it's probably more
>>> complex than that; and I am not alone thinking we must do much more
>in
>>> these geographies.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> As LibreOffice usage rises so does usage of the format. But usage
>of
>>>> the format follows. It doesn't lead the way. Most of us started
>by
>>>> trying to stick with MS formats, perhaps even setting the defaults
>to
>>>> MS formats (i did that). After a while each of us begins to
>realise
>>>> that it's not the optimum format and so we gradually change to
>keeping
>>>> originals in ODF and only using MS ones to share with outsiders.
>Soon
>>>> we are going to be able to use ODF to share with outsiders.
>>>>
>>>> Three years ago some people would write to this list or comment
>under
>>>> articles to say that LibreOffice didn't have something they wanted
>so
>>>> they would "have to" return to MS Office. A tad irksome because we
>>>> would often find the functionality did exist or that same
>end-result
>>>> could be obtained by some more efficient route. Those few people
>had
>>>> just found it easier to spend more time registering and writing a
>>>> grumble rather than bothering to spend any effort looking up how to
>do
>>>> the task.
>>>>
>>>> Nowadays people write in to apologise that they have had to return
>to
>>>> OpenOffice or that they are going to try out Kingsoft Office
>(because
>>>> it has a ribbon-bar) or something else. It's becoming very rare to
>>>> see people saying they have to return to MS Office.
>>>>
>>>> To me that seems a very positive step in the right direction. Once
>>>> people have been freed from MS it doesn't really matter which
>program
>>>> they are using or even which format they use. It's only MS that
>makes
>>>> their own format so troublesome. Step away from MS and suddenly
>>>> people have less trouble sharing with other people using any other
>>>> non-MS program.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, when people claim to have trouble with LO about something it's
>>>> good to encourage them to use any of the many alternatives. Just
>find
>>>> out what their main "must have" is and find something that does
>have
>>>> it.
>>>> * If their main "must have" a ribbon-bar then Kingsoft Office
>seems a
>>>> reasonable choice, apparently it's available for Gnu&Linux
As far as I have been able to determine, it's only available for Windows,
Android, and to a limited extent IOS.
I really wish there were a LO Calc implementation for Android to use in place
of Kingsoft Office. I don't feel secure using a proprietary office product;
especially one from China.
>>>> * If their "must have" is Cloud then Google-docs or Google-drive,
>or
>>>> whatever it is called now. Note that Google are one of the
>supporters
>>>> of TDF and might even be on the Advisory Board
>>>> * If their "must have" is that it works well on lower spec
>machines
>>>> then "Gnome Office" (AbiWord and/or Gnumeric). Gnumeric is also a
>>>> good choice if they want a more powerful spreadsheet program than
>>>> Excel/Calc
>>>> * Android and iThings are the only one don't know of a good
>choice
>>>> for yet
See my comment above,
>>>> Most of those people will return to LibreOffice because
>it's
>>>> better. Some might wait until LO offers their "must have" or return
>>>> when they upgrade their machine.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Keep in mind, these must haves are evolving. I have had one guy from
>a
>>> French Ministry telling me for years about macro compatibility and
>>> overnight dumping that point in favor of online collaboration....
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, i don't think we can lead by promoting the format alone. I
>think
>>>> we have to promote on a few fronts at the same time. Any good
>>>> tactician will know that attacking on more than one front at a time
>is
>>>> risky. Promoting the community first is probably not a bad plan
>>>> because that leads to all the other issues quite neatly.
>>>
>>> Yes and it also -supposedly- grows the community, therefore growing
>the
>>> resources, etc.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So Marco's personal beef with "continuing to promote the software
>>>> ahead of the format" kinda misses the point that we never really
>put
>>>> any effort into promoting the program. Any such effort used to be
>>>> severely hampered by Sun. Promoting the program does seem to have
>>>> worked a LOT better in the last 3 years than it worked in the
>>>> preceding decade. We seem to be getting somewhere at last!
------>8=======
--
Jim
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