Curtis, I would be more than happy to acknowledge that. I'm glad you brought that up, it was my intention to do so. In fact I was drafting such a response when I received bit Greg's and Wayne's reply and thought it more important to reply to them first.
This actually raises another point, but to be honest I see no reason to even make it at this time. Michael Tarullo Contractor (Engility Corp) Enterprise Architect NSRR System Administrator FAA WJH Technical Center (609)485-5294 -----Original Message----- From: ctrueden.w...@gmail.com [mailto:ctrueden.w...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Curtis Rueden Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 4:19 PM To: Maven Users List Subject: Re: Copy-dependencies goal error Hi Wayne, > I'm glad Greg was able to help you solve your problem. Greg's response was great. But in fairness, it was Bernd who actually stated the solution to Michael's problem. It would be nice if this thread could wrap up with Michael acknowledging that Bernd's fix actually does the job. Regards, Curtis On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Wayne Fay <wayne...@gmail.com> wrote: > If you disagree with almost everything I said, there's really no point > in continuing to discuss it. The possibility of either of us being > convinced to change our minds is vanishingly small. > > I'm glad Greg was able to help you solve your problem. > > Respectfully, > Wayne > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 2:17 PM, <michael.ctr.taru...@faa.gov> wrote: > > Wayne, > > > > Thank you for your reply. I think I disagree with almost everything > > you > said. > > > > First I did not attack anyone. Was my attitude bad, yes. Did it > > get > worse when I felt like I was not getting the explanation I needed, > most assuredly. I called no one a name, nor insulted anyone's > intelligence, and when I came close to it I apologized. That's more > than I got from several of the responders. Just check the thread, its all > there. > > > > Second, are you implying that you only support people that are happy > with the product? It sounds to me that you are on the defensive already > and as soon as you get someone that is frustrated or displeased. Like it > is somehow their fault. > > > > Third, how do you know how much time I've invested in trying to > > learn > Maven? How much is enough before I can have this "intelligent" Maven > dialog with the Maven community? Users don't want to ask people for > help (i.e. at least I like to try and figure things out for myself), > but there comes a time when you are just plain stuck. Maybe its > because of a mental block and maybe something you've read and > researched just does not make any sense. Yes I understand that there > are some people that probably post questions without having made an > effort to learn anything. How do you determine that? How do you > differentiate someone who has made an effort from someone who is just trying > to get an easy answer? > > > > With respect to vocabulary and the lingua franca, does "bogus" fit > > in > that category. > > > > Your comment about the Maven 4.0.0 POM model is particularly > frustrating. When you told me to do the research on the original > version I did exactly as you instructed. That is how I determined > that it was 2.2.1. I'm sorry but I think the POM model version > question is valid. In your original reply you did not know the time > frame. I replied to you that it goes back at least five years. You > did not respond. So while I was doing the research on the version and > I found out it was 2.2.1 I thought the POM model version could be a > problem. To tell me now after the fact that I should not have been > concerned would mean that I would either have to assume that you know that or > I would have to be a mind reader. > > > > And finally I demanded nothing from anyone. I asked if two of the > repliers were contributors, and I reiterated a basic question I asked > from the beginning, several times. > > > > Yes I am partly to blame here. But many of the Maven User List > responders have a little dirt on their hands too. I don't see any of > you acknowledging that. > > > > Regards, > > Mike > > > > Michael Tarullo > > Contractor (Engility Corp) > > Enterprise Architect > > NSRR System Administrator > > FAA WJH Technical Center > > (609)485-5294 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wayne Fay [mailto:wayne...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 12:30 PM > > To: Maven Users List > > Subject: Re: Copy-dependencies goal error > > > > Maven is a rather complex piece of software. Many problems cannot be > simply distilled to "here's your simple problem, and here's your > simple solution." I understand this is what you want, but it is rarely > that simple. And attacking the people on this list who are trying to > help you when you are frustrated with the type of support they are > providing is a really bad approach to problem solving. Also recognize > that many people on this list are not US-born native English speakers, > so there is sometimes a language barrier even when we are all writing English. > > > > By using a free product, you (and your employer) should recognize > > that > you are trading off dollar costs for other costs - including your own time. > Please don't complain about people asking you to do something very > simple like install a couple other versions to see if that fixes your build > issue. > It doesn't sound like you went back and tried 2.2.1 as I originally > recommended - simply to get more information about what happened, > certainly not intending to guarantee that would fix your issue. I'd be > curious about the error message you say that you got in 3.0.5. > > > > (Also, as a side-note, the POM model has been 4.0.0 for a long time > > - if > I was worried about that, I would have mentioned it. This is where > "not really knowing the product at all, and not wanting to" becomes a > problem, you are making bad assumptions.) > > > > And yes, the users of this list generally expect people to have some > passing familiarity with the product and the lingua franca that is > utilized. There are several free resources online to help you "get up > to speed" in the form of user's manuals etc. Your response here will > most likely be "but I don't want to learn Maven, I just need to use it > for this quick thing in my job so just help me with that" and the > collective answer here will be "but Maven is complex, there are so > many variables, providing simple solutions to problems is even tougher > when the user lacks the standard foundational knowledge that is typical." > > > > It is fine that you only use Maven for your job and thus don't want > > to > learn much - just get your issue fixed. Please understand that our > collective tolerance for such users, when they have the wrong attitude > as you have demonstrated in this thread, is pretty low. Especially > when you say this is part of a COTS software which means that vendor > is "passing the buck" for support to this list when they themselves > should provide you more support which you are paying for. In the ideal > scenario, you open a ticket to that vendor, they have an internal > person who is good with Maven who provides you with support, and only > if they cannot solve the problem would they come to this list for support on > your behalf. > > > > You should not be unhappy with the users of this list. You should > > direct > that anger to the COTS vendor who is failing to provide you with > support for a product that you have paid for! If your emails to this > list demonstrates how angry you get when you haven't paid for > something and don't get what you expect, I don't want to be around > when we throw substantial real dollars into the mix - I anticipate a > stream of obscenity-laced emails flying in every direction. > > > > Demanding short & simple responses to all inquiries such as yours > > will > result in little traffic on this list as there is rarely a short & > simple response to most of the questions. And yes, demanding is the > only word which is appropriate in the context of this thread. > > > > We're happy to (try to) support you here, but I'd suggest that you > > adopt > a somewhat different approach & attitude first. > > > > Thanks, > > Wayne > > Apache Maven PMC Member > > > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 4:42 PM, <michael.ctr.taru...@faa.gov> wrote: > >> Here is why I care: > >> > >> Well I'm not a Maven contributor. I don't wish to be. I don't > >> even > want to use the product, and wouldn't if I wasn't required to for my job. > >> > >> So I get the impression that certain people answer questions > >> because > they are contributors and answer the question as if everyone else is a > contributor and is expected to know the product as such. > >> > >> You folks in the open source arena have a lot to learn. Your reply > that you "fixed my stupid pom" is one of those things. Good customer > support would go something like this..... > >> > >> The problem you are having is because...... <provide an explanation > >> here that someone who is not a contributor or even an intermediate > >> or advanced user can understand> > >> > >> Here is what you need to do to fix that problem..... <provide the > >> fix and explain why this fix is needed in this case> > >> > >> You have done nothing to educate the user and to make them more > self-sufficient. > >> > >> Michael Tarullo > >> Contractor (Engility Corp) > >> Enterprise Architect > >> NSRR System Administrator > >> FAA WJH Technical Center > >> (609)485-5294 > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Bernd Eckenfels [mailto:e...@zusammenkunft.net] > >> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 5:12 PM > >> To: users@maven.apache.org > >> Subject: Re: Copy-dependencies goal error > >> > >> Am Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:08:02 +0000 > >> schrieb <michael.ctr.taru...@faa.gov>: > >>> Answer a simple question for me, are you a Maven contributor? > >> > >> I fixed your stupid pom, so why would you care? > >> > >> Gruss > >> Bernd > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > >
