https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT+12.0+Test+Spec+Reviews
That’s all, not much. Gj On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 22:03, Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com> wrote: > > So let’s have all these laudables contribute to CoolBeans (put that page > back up Emilian and link to it in this thread) and then let’s have > CoolBeans use that pile if cash to sponsor NetCAT 12.0 participation! > > First, I assume the bellow was written in jest: > > > $50 per person per NetCAT test spec > > I see there are about 200 test specs according to > https://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy/client/app/#/specifications so > is anybody really donating such substantial sums of money? > > Note that for CoolBeans (now OpenBeans, heh), I would have charged > money via my company. Then paid a salary to me or cover other project > expenses. I don't have a foundation that could give cash grants to > external individuals. Even so, I suspect just drafting the legal > paperwork for such a situation and clearing things up with the > accountant would cost more than the actual donations. > > --emi > > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 10:34 PM Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > > So let’s have all these laudables contribute to CoolBeans (put that page > back up Emilian and link to it in this thread) and then let’s have > CoolBeans use that pile if cash to sponsor NetCAT 12.0 participation! > > > > Gj > > > > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 21:28, Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> You guys are laudable! > >> > >> Back in late 2018 when I launched CoolBeans I also put up a store page > >> as I imagined it was possible to get paid working on NetBeans codebase > >> itself. (BTW, no third party can sell "NetBeans" since it's an Apache > >> trademark!) > >> > >> Incorporated entities did use CoolBeans but not once bought a license! > >> I did get a formal request via SoftChoice (aka procurement) which > >> involved a lot of back and forth and changes before they could buy > >> exactly 0 licenses. > >> > >> I also tried paying for features myself via bounties > >> https://www.openbeans.org/bounties/ but nobody claimed one. > >> > >> Really curious what the conclusion of this talk is and what solution is > found. > >> > >> My opinion is that there is no money in NetBeans (excluding some > >> legacy Platform apps still going) and even when people want to pay > >> other requirements are not met and the deal fails. > >> > >> It would be cool to have a Tomitribe for NetBeans, but... there is no > >> market for IDE subscriptions. > >> > >> --emi > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 9:53 PM John G. Weed <nonsequi...@fastmail.com> > wrote: > >> > > >> > I'd be more than happy to contribute some cash to the appropriately > formed company, either directly or in some form of licensing agreent. I'd > also be willing to offer some time, though my expertise is limited to c/c++. > >> > > >> > Sincerely, > >> > > >> > John .G Weed > >> > Cicero Systems, LLC > >> > "Reason. Resolve. Respond" > >> > (571) 277-9998 > >> > > >> > "Steal a man's reputation for probity, and the more shrewd and clever > he is, the more hated and mistrusted he'll become." Marcus Tullius Cicero > (106BC-43BC) > >> > > >> > Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this electronic > transmission is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the > recipient(s) named above. If the reader of this message is not the > recipient(s) named above, or an authorized agent of such recipient(s) > responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby > notified that you have received this electronic transmission in error. Any > review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this electronic > transmission including any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender > immediately. > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, at 15:33, Thomas Wolf wrote: > >> > > >> > I'd be happy to contribute some personal money. To get my employer > to pay, it would have to take the form of something like an IDE license or > support license. Many engineers in my company use IntelliJ and the company > pays for those licenses - I don't see why they wouldn't pay for a Netbeans > "license" for me as long as they have an official place from which to > 'purchase' it. > >> > > >> > Best regards, > >> > Tom > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 3:22 PM Geertjan Wielenga < > geert...@apache.org> wrote: > >> > > >> > Sure! If you’re not willing/able to participate in NetCAT yourself: > >> > > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT+12.0 > >> > > >> > ...would you be interested in sponsoring others to do so, at say $50 > per person per NetCAT test spec? > >> > > >> > Gj > >> > > >> > On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 20:01, Chris Olsen <col...@mchsi.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > Thomas and All -- > >> > > >> > Mine is much the same story. Would there be some way to > contribute $$$ (or, in my case, $$) to the team meaningfully? > >> > > >> > -- Chris > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Thomas Wolf <tjw...@gmail.com> > >> > To: John Mc <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com> > >> > Cc: Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net>, bmelen...@hemstech.com, > Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org>, Emilian Bold < > emilian.b...@gmail.com>, Paul Szudzik <pszud...@throwarock.com>, Netbeans > Mailing List <users@netbeans.apache.org> > >> > Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:10:11 -0400 (EDT) > >> > Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment > >> > > >> > My $.02, > >> > I’ve been benefitting from NB since I moved over from Visual Cafe in > 1999 (to give you an idea of what a Java dinosaur I am). And my only > contributions in 2+ decades have been bug reports (most of which now lie > forgotten somewhere in the bowels of the old Bugzilla system) and 1-2 > NetCAT participations. I have always been willing to pay for this > excellent tool but never had the desire (or time) to improve it myself. > In the early days, I once downloaded it with the faint hope of correcting > a minor bug - but didn’t even succeed in building it. For me at least, > the time it takes to get high enough on the learning curve to contribute > meaningfully is more than I have been willing to invest (maybe that’ll > change after I retire in a few years). > >> > > >> > But like I said, I’ve always been more than happy to pay for the > tool. I wonder if it’s too late for NB to introduce such an > alternative/additional model? Just a thought. > >> > > >> > Best regards, > >> > Tom > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Mar 13, 2020, at 9:51 AM, John Mc <mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > But instead of looking at this financial payment, why not consider > an time/effort payment? > >> > > > >> > > At present, I cant really talk, I've been busy, and have provided > anything back to NetBeans in a while but then I don't have any issues that > are negatively effecting me. If and when I do I will hopefully try to > address them, like I have tried to in the past. > >> > > > >> > > The way I see it, if we could find out what exactly is blocking > people from moving to 11.3/12, and then if they can spend even a small > amount of time/effort into looking at these we can get to an even better > NetBeans product. > >> > > > >> > > John > >> > > > >> > >> On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 13:34, Robert Erdt <rob.e...@charter.net> > wrote: > >> > >> Agreed, NetBeans is worth paying for.... > >> > >> > >> > >> I am with Bill, I have not upgraded and I am at 9 similar to 8. > >> > >> > >> > >> Rob > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> > >> From: bmelen...@hemstech.com [mailto:bmelen...@hemstech.com] > >> > >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 9:30 AM > >> > >> To: Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> > >> > >> Cc: Emilian Bold <emilian.b...@gmail.com>; Paul Szudzik < > pszud...@throwarock.com>; Netbeans Mailing List <users@netbeans.apache.org > > > >> > >> Subject: Re: Statement of disappointment > >> > >> > >> > >> All: > >> > >> > >> > >> Been reading all the emails on the NB migration. I do JAVA on NB > 8.0.2 platform and have not upgraded due to the issues being address. I do > okay with the NB 8. If this is so critical for getting program done for > clients, then one should be willing to pay for the platform. See it as a > business expense and write it off at tax time. Normally, tools are included > in the cost of a job -so I'm miffed as to the expectations placing the onus > on NB development to resolve things at no cost. NB is a great platform and > this is merely a transitional period for it, so I stay with my current > platform and wait until the dust settles --or pay for the upgrade with > support if my situation changes. While NB has many issues, it will > eventually resolve the main ones or become a dust covered relic with > passing memories. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Indeed, I think the approach Emilian suggests is the way to go. > And, > >> > >> > indeed, if you don't want to or have the time to move to Maven of > >> > >> > Gradle, then a lot of modern options start closing off to you. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > But, on a different level, for a lot of users of NetBeans, the > >> > >> > chickens have come home to roost: a free and open source > project, such > >> > >> > as NetBeans, should never simply have been 'used', it should > always > >> > >> > have been invested in. For example, simply filing a bug and > hoping > >> > >> > someone will turn up to fix it has never been the way open > source is > >> > >> > meant to work. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Nothing is ever free -- either you spend time (in understanding > how > >> > >> > NetBeans works, for example) or money (in paying JetBrains, for > >> > >> > example, and then you have engineers creating IntelliJ IDEA for > you). > >> > >> > Not spending anything at all and hoping things will work out for > you > >> > >> > has never been a sustainable approach. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Gjj > >> > >> > > >> > >> > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 4:24 PM Emilian Bold < > emilian.b...@gmail.com> > >> > >> > wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > >> >> Go and pick Azul Zulu' JDK FX package which comes bundles with > JavaFX: > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-community/?&architecture=x86-64-b > >> > >> >> it&package=jdk-fx > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> I used it for an older Platform app where I don't feel like > >> > >> >> configuring the FX mumbo jumbo. > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> I doubt anybody can make a magic transition tools since there's > too > >> > >> >> much people can customize... > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> Given the resources available, things are as they are. They > could > >> > >> >> always be better. > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> --emi > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:16 PM Paul Szudzik < > pszud...@throwarock.com> > >> > >> >> wrote: > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > I have been a NetBeans user since inception. I am > retired now, > >> > >> >> but > >> > >> >> when I worked, I was one of the few people in my company that > was an > >> > >> >> advocate of NetBeans, and used it instead of the company line, > >> > >> >> Eclipse product. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > Retired now for 10+ years, I used NetBeans to develop my > >> > >> >> > products, > >> > >> >> and really getting involved in JavaFX big time. I love the cross > >> > >> >> platform capability, and use it on both Ubuntu and Windows. > >> > >> >> Raspberry Pi, no problem. Windows, no problem. I loved it. > Then > >> > >> >> boom, Oracle takes JavaFX out of the mix, and NetBeans and I > start > >> > >> >> having major problems. It gets harder and harder to use > NetBeans with > >> > >> >> it’s incompatibility with JavaFX without going through hoops > every > >> > >> >> single time we upgrade. I have a ton of projects that are a > major > >> > >> >> pain to go back to without having to dance on a high wire to > get to > >> > >> >> work. And I am still not sure I can do this anymore. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > I have been a computer programmer, designer and architect > for > >> > >> >> > well > >> > >> >> over 53+ years. I have see many systems come and go, many IDE > rise > >> > >> >> and fall, many languages surface and crash. The move to Maven > is > >> > >> >> beyond my scope now. I want to program, not to have to > regenerate > >> > >> >> and rehash my build system every release. I have tried to move > over > >> > >> >> to 11, and mostly failed. I have too many modules and programs > in play to hack this out. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > It would have been great if NetBeans had a seamless > transition > >> > >> >> > , > >> > >> >> built in conversions for old projects to current format. > Seriously, > >> > >> >> I would love to be on that train. But nope, it seems too much > >> > >> >> handholding and dancing. I currently have a half dozen active > >> > >> >> Beta’s that are stuck in a NetBeans 8.1.x / Java 8 scenario, > that > >> > >> >> I want to port into NetBeans > >> > >> >> 11.3 / Java 13+ area, but really don’t believe that it is 1: > Easy, 2: > >> > >> >> Lasting, 3: Enduring more than another release. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > I still have reported bugs > 5 years old that are not > resolved. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > I see streams of notes that are asking questions about > >> > >> >> compatibility. ( The latest straw is the Ant image ... ) I > see how > >> > >> >> once the major players in NetBeans get on a wagon, the trail > off is > >> > >> >> almost impossible. If you’re new to NetBeans, perhaps this > is a > >> > >> >> good trend. > >> > >> >> If > >> > >> >> you have dealt with NetBeans as long as I have.. it becomes > more than > >> > >> >> just an annoyance. It almost easier to find another IDE to > settle in > >> > >> >> on, as the amount of work to transfer 100+ projects, probably > more, > >> > >> >> from old NetBeans to new NetBeans is formidable. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > Maybe a 3rd party can produce a product that 100% > transfer old > >> > >> >> projects to Maven.. I’d rather develop and code than mess > around > >> > >> >> with trying to make things move up the NetBeans chain anymore.. > >> > >> >> Coding is fun, transitioning is not. I am 100% committed to > JavaFX, I > >> > >> >> like the layouts, I like what Gluon has done, I like the look > and > >> > >> >> feel. > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > NetBeans 8 –> NetBeans 11+ –> convert ... > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > I would normally apologize for my rant, but nope. I feel > that I > >> > >> >> > am > >> > >> >> now progressing backwards... > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > >> > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > >> > >> >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Bill Melendez, Founder & CEO, MBA > >> > >> HEMS Technology > >> > >> www.hemstech.com > >> > >> www.linkedin.com/in/billmelendez > >> > >> bmelen...@hemstech.com > >> > >> 817-932-0047 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > >> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org > >> > >> > >> > >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > >> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > >> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org > >> > >> > >> > >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > >> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > tjw...@gmail.com > >> > http://landofwolf.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org > >> > >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > >
