Twayne wrote:
<snip>
The major issue is if the software you want is available on the
platform of choice.
No; the features and functions I NEED, not want, is the key there. MS
still have the corner on several things LInux hasn't yet opened up.
It may someday, but ... not yet.
If you are serious about this, then perhaps you could furnish a list of
the software you NEED. The chances are, unless it is a proprietary
code-base, there are similarly functioning FOSS packages out there.
Similarly, many of the distros like Ubuntu and OpenSUSE and Fedora tend
to have an incredible range of hardware that they will work with out of
the box.
For the majority of home users, and front office corporate employees,
FLOSS alternatives are equal to, or better than those from Microsoft.
FOSS or FLOSS doesn't matter;
From your (limited) user perspective that may be the case. But, in all
seriousness, the issue of Free and Open Source Software *does* matter,
and it matters very much given the larger scope of things. For example,
given the recently leaked spybook from MS (search wikileaks), one should
be very concerned about how your closed source OS collects data about
you and your usage of what remains, ultimately, their machine (read the
EULA of the next Windows install you do). Moreover, there are
significant ethical issues that emerge from the closed profit-making use
of what is, effectively, human intellectual property - not anything that
is owned by any one corporation to the exclusion of everyone else. MS
stands on the shoulders of giants, but it would have you believe that it
got there all by itself in a sealed bubble.
it's the features and functions one NEEDS that are the crux of it
all. I go open source, GPL, anything open source first, and if it can
do what I NEED it to do, then great.
This is hard to believe considering your earlier report of how GNU/Linux
keeps falling over for you ("it just plain falls down on its face in my
case. " ). I suspect that somehow you won't be putting a lot of effort
into finding something that works on a system that falls down on you
frequently.
If unfortunately I can only find those things from a proprietary
company, well, that's life. "FLOSS alternatives" are as good as the
authors and contributors of the programs and it has little to do with
being "better" because it's FLOSS or MICROSOFT or whomever;
Again, this is FUD. If you've ever programmed anything you will realise
that no matter what - bugs creep into the code. Having numerous people
able to scrutinise that code makes that code a lot more robust and
generally secure (at least in terms of the usual buffer overflows, etc.)
than code that is sealed under proprietary ownership laws, where one
team of developers is not allowed to see what the other teams are
working on due to security risks, etc. Moreover, you will find that in
study after study (except for those funded by MS), bug fixes are rolled
out faster in FOSS world and that security breaches are corrected for
quicker.
it's functionality that is key. There just is no panacea that's going
to be turn key in any way for any large group; perhaps groups within a
group, but not 100%.
Pass - no idea what you're on about.
My requirements are modest: It should never be single-sourced as in a
Microsoft product whenever possible and more importantly must support
the NEEDED features and functions it is being pursued for. The
greatest program in the world is of no use or interest to me if it
doesn't provide features and functionality that I need.
Again, very confused/ confusing and states the obvious about software
features, etc.
For the majority of back office server usage, propriety and FLOSS
solutions are on a par.
That's debatable, misdirects original generalities into specifics and
basically changes the flavor of the thread. As such, it's of no use to
this conversation.
Actually, it is relevant and you opened the door for this by your
ridiculous claim that you made about GNU/Linux when you wrote: "Linux is
good for those who run certain programs only and consistantly and the
distro includes any drivers they might need to support, or they can at
least be downloaded and added to the OS. Unfortunately for most
serious computer users though, unless you were brought up on Linux of
any flavor, it just doesn't fit the bill."
At the very high end of things, Linux solutions, albeit proprietary,
are better than those from Microsoft.
Again, debatable, obvious in some, not so obvious in others and
completely irrelevant to my objection to simply spewing "Linux is
best" as a way of jumping on microsoft. I'll jump all over Microsoft
for some very obvious and negative things they've done but I also do
it with reason, not from a simple fanatic background that has no
intent other than to libel and defame.
Get off of your soapbox Twayne. The poster, Jonathon, was making no
fanatical comments, but merely pointing out trends that can be found
quite readily if you did some research of your own. You are the one who
is coming across as an eye-rolling mouth foamer, not Jonathon.
I abhor Microsoft in fact, but the fact remains that they have the OS
I NEED and which has the functions and features LInux does not.
That's debatable. If MS has the OS you NEED, then baby you are in deep
doo doo, because MS owns your scrawny ass. Another one bites the dust.
It's as simple as just not using an OS that is sub-par for MY needs.
I am ME and no one else. I don't care what others think unless they
are jerks that want to claim Linux is any kind of 100% turnkey for
anything. Only limited experience can provide that kind of background.
Yada yada yada. My my - I get the impression that you probably want to
be seen as some kind of uber-geek because only MS meets your needs, not
some sub-par OS (e.g. GNU/Linux, Mac OSX, *BSD as the big three
alternatives).
Between the very high end, and slightly above SOHO quality, Windows
products _usually_ offer features and functionality not available in
the FLOSS equivalent. Reasons for this vary, according to industry,
but as a general rule of thumb, it boils down to either copyrights on
the data that is used, or software patents, or it is so specialized
that it doesn't scratch any programmer's itch.
There is some truth to that, but as with the other claims, it's not
across the board and by the sheer existence of those facts, nothing
stops LInux from forking or superceding those features and functions
with better code and more ingenuity, something Microsoft has been very
lean on for several years now. You can succumb to that line of
thinking if you wish, or better yet believe that there are engenius
entrepreneurs and partners out there who aren't afraid of such things
and know how to do them properly. Sun is a good example of such a
company and more are popping up every day.
case it's mostly the lack of drivers for software and hardware I
use, and/or
For me, Microsoft is utterly unable to provide drivers for the
hardware I use.
lol! Very funny. Go buy a Commodore 64 and it won't help a lot there
either.
And your point is ... ?
I don't succumg to attempts to pull conversations into new territory;
This wasn't new territory. Again, you opened the door by claiming
problems with hardware and drivers, etc. for your GNU/Linux machine.
either stick to the subject or find a place where people agree you're
on topic. It's not hard to have a piece of equipment that won't run on
windows or Linux or Unix or ... etc etc etc., by simply not having
drivers or support software for them.
Except that when one is locked into MS, one can either (hopefully)
download a driver from the web or one uses whatever came with the
peripheral/ card/ etc. In the case of GNU/Linux and NetBSD especially
(which is reputed to run on a toaster!), the drivers come with the OS in
the first place. That was one of the points from the thread.
If there is a viable market for it, you can bet MS will be there in
a hurry with their still deep pockets, ready to take on any task
regardless of how wonderfully the originator thinks they've protected
it all. And besides, that drives it right back into the realm of
"single sourcing", which has been the major problem with MS for over a
decade now. Even with their claims to support open source, MS hasn't
accomplished anything worth a whit yet to prove it. A culture that
huge simply cannot turn on a dime and make such things happen even in
eventuality, let alone quickly.
Waffle.
(You can laugh, or you can cry, but the simple fact is that Microsoft
Windows just doesn't work on that hardware. I basically had to prove
to the CEO of the company I bought it from, that I knew what *nix was,
before he allowed the sale of the system I have. Win7 won't run on it
either.)
Annnd, that's relative how? All it does is support my previous points.
Linux, BSD, and OpenSolaris run just fine.
Again, huh? Is that supposed to goad me into providing my own list?
EVERY successful operating systems "run just fine". That means nothing
though w/r to whether they meet my requirements or not.
No, but it again challenges your dopey arguments in favour of MS and
your cavalier dissing of FOSS alternatives.
<snip>
After a moment's deliberation and thinking about your comments and how
you made them, I've come to my own conclusion that you are trolling
rather than actually discussing anything.
Well that's that then. You managed to come to your own conclusion about
someone else's motivation, even though there is nothing in Jonathon's
post that would actually suggest trolling, you have come to that
conclusion. Why? Because you don't like what he had to say? Because
he didn't allow you to get away with your baseless hand-waving?
I like a good discussion of on topic subjects but multiple instances
of a closed mind show through your writing and tell me you're a waste
of time to spend further time with.
As Jonathon is no doubt thinking about you as well.
Thus, in looking back over my own writing, I notice I've treated you
with responses typical of your own, as I often do, when I decide I
have a closed mind or a troller wanting a platform.
But you wouldn't object to your own use of this platform would you,
because you are inviolate and driven by pure intentions, pursuing the
noble cause of MS. The OP was quite right - it is indeed certainly
within the realms of reason, and the experience of many thousands, that
the OP's OS (MS) is just plain crap. Get over it. No one needed your
self-important diatribe on how GNU/Linux sucks and how MS rules (even
though it is also crap and how you abhor it so), nor your claims about
how Jonathon (or whomever) is a troll.
But I'm afraid my discussions with you are over.
I can hear Jonathon crying now. There, there Jonathon, it's okay ...
I'm sure life without Twayne's masterful engagement with you will still
be bearable ;)
This is too good a group to mess around with useless conversations of
off topic subjects and strays. You may color me gone.
You promise?
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