Rob Weir wrote:
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 5:20 PM,<[email protected]> wrote:
Rob Weir wrote:
On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 7:16 AM,<[email protected]>
wrote:
<snip>
To be honest, I don't see why Apache can't continue using the existing
infrastructure on openoffice.org? incubator.apache.org sounds, to me,
like
something which is in the early stages of development - which OOo
certainly
isn't! I know the page at http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
explains otherwise, but if I were not already familiar with OOo I
probably
wouldn't even have read that far.
You can read more about Apache Incubation here:
http://incubator.apache.org/
All projects that go through Incubation at Apache are already
established open source projects. Incubation is not a place to start
a new codebase. Apache Labs is where brand new ideas can start.
So the point of Incubation for OOo is not that OOo is new, but that it
is new to Apache and needs some extra attention to conform to the
Apache license, integrate with Apache infrastructure and understand
how Apache projects are run.
I understand that. But if I were a new user looking at that page, who was
not familiar with OpenOffice.org nor Apache's meaning of "incubation", I
would probably think the software is not well developed and not look at it
any further. I might not have even opened a link to the page, reading
"incubator" in the address and assuming it to be under-developed, or if I
did I may not read past the first sentence which described the project as an
"effort undergoing incubation" - sounds like it is not yet a successful
project.
Why would a user be looking at the Apache incubation page? A user is
going to go to the OpenOffice.org site, right?
I thought I saw something on this mailing list saying that
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ is now the site to go to for
information about OOo. Perhaps I misunderstood.
I can't really answer your cosmic "why?" question. We must take it as
a given fact that Oracle has contributed OOo to Apache and that Oracle
will be shutting down their hosting of the website. Once those facts
are acknowledged -- even if you disagree with those decisions or how
they were made -- the rest of this, including Apache Incubation and
list migration, follows naturally.
Oracle have handed over the software, including the OpenOffice.org name and
branding, but not the openoffice.org domain nor the existing web and email
list infrastructure? That will also cause confusion, if Apache still call
the software OpenOffice.org, but there is no up-to-date web site for it at
openoffice.org!
They have transferred the domain name as well. But not the servers.
So we can set up new servers to have parallel content and services,
but this is not as simple as just copying files over.
In the end I expect there will still be an openoffice.org where end
users will go to download and learn about OpenOffice.
OK. I must have misunderstood, as I thought the site at openoffice.org
was going to be shut down along with the mailing lists. Perhaps I had
just incorrectly assumed that since the mailing lists were moving from
openoffice.org to incubator.apache.org that the web site was too.
I notice the pages at:
http://support.openoffice.org/index.html
and:
http://www.openoffice.org/mail_list.html
still direct users to subscribe to this mailing list for support. I
don't know if you have any control over the content of those pages at
the moment though, if they're still hosted by Oracle...?
That page also states that "Incubation is required of all newly accepted
projects until a further review indicates that the infrastructure,
communications, and decision making process have stabilized in a manner
consistent with other successful ASF projects."
Does this mean the infrastructure, mailing list addresses, etc. are going
to
change *again* once they have stabilized? If that's the case, why not use
the existing infrastructure at openoffice.org until Apache are ready to
roll
out whatever new infrastructure they want to put in place?
Once a project graduates from Incubation it becomes a "top level
project" or TLP. At that point the mailing lists will change again,
e.g. [email protected],org would become
[email protected]. We can probably make that transition
easy for subscribers, since it will be still within the same list
infrastructure.
So we're expected to subscribe to [email protected] now, and
will soon be expected to subscribe yet again to
[email protected]... (or at least change the address we send email
to, again)
Yes, I think you have the idea. Change addresses now, and once again
in maybe 6 months. This will require sending two emails, one now to
[email protected], and another one in around 6
months to [email protected].
This will be confusing to some users, so I will make sure that we post
detailed instructions, to the list and the website, when the time
comes.
I'm sorry to say, I will also be looking at joining those moving over to
LibreOffice (not that I contribute anywhere near as much here as some others
do). If nothing else, it seems to be much more stable in terms of supporting
infrastructure, and even who owns it!
That is fine. But you should know that moving to LibreOffice will
require subscribing to a different mailing list as well, So you
cannot entirely escape this inconvenience.
True, but at least it's just one change now (which I'll have to make one
way or another anyway), and not another in a few months, and who knows
how many more changes as OOo is passed around...
Thanks for clarifying a few points here.
Mark.
Regards,
-Rob
-Rob
Mark.
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