On 07/31/2007 03:22 PM, Harold Fuchs wrote: > Alan Lord wrote: >> Harold Fuchs wrote: <snip /> >>> Don't you get the same 100+ messages per day in your News >>> "folder"? Which in some news readers (Thunderbird, for example) >>> you can't delete. And to which you can't "properly" reply because >>> you can't tell if the OP is subscribed or not and therefore >>> whether or not s/he will see your words of wisdom? >>> >>> Or is this yet another SIGTWEO (Stick I've Got The Wrong End Of)? >>> >>> >> >> You are right that the hypothetical 100 do appear in your news >> folder (but only the header until you open them) and it just >> doesn't feel like a mailbox to me... Quite often I'll just "mark >> all read" if it looks like inconsequential stuff and then at a >> convenient time, follow up just on the interesting threads. (FWIW - >> I use TB as my newsreader) >> > I have all my OO stuff put into a separate e-mail account (I use a > different e-mail address & server for OO than for normal stuff). > > I only see the headers in the Inbox. That's because I turn off the > Preview Pane; the Preview Pane is highly insecure anyway, so turning > it off is always a good idea. > > I can "mark all read" if I feel like it or only reply when I'm > sure(ish) of my ground. > >> I was not aware of the subscribed/not subscribed issue - as far as >> I am concerned, if someone posts a question or statement to a >> mailing list then that is where the response should go. I'd never >> usually reply to the poster directly unless I knew them well or had >> something "off-topic" to say (perhaps). Also, the original poster >> may well be viewing/contributing to the the mailist via gmane (as I >> am now). > I use TB and I have it configured to highlight in red the headers of > messages from unsubscribed users. One of the quirks of this mail > list is that you don't have to subscribe to send messages. However, > if you don't and the responder *only* replies to the list then you > don't get to see that reply. For an unsubscribed user to see a reply, > that user's address must be explicitly included in the response, > either as an additional To:, or as a Cc: [or, I suppose, as a Bcc:]. > I have yet to find a way accurately to identify messages from > unsubscribed users when I read the messages with a News reader. > >> So no, I don't think you got the stick incorrectly positioned. In >> fact that was an concept of mailing list use I had never considered >> before: post, and then run away ;-) > My argument is that a newbie who wants to ask a simple question > shouldn't be exposed to the 100+ messages per day that subscribing > would generate. That's why I'm pro the idea (a) that a user should be > able to send questions without having to subscribe and (b) that it's > my responsibility as a *volunteer* to try to ensure that the user > gets his/her answer without having to subscribe. Apart from anything > else, if the user doesn't see my reply then I've wasted my time > answering. > > <snip>
And I suspect that were the poster *required* to subscribe, and an appropriate message during the subscribe process pointed to useful links/faqs/docs/install, *and* pointed out that the lists are public (list or gmane) etc., there wouldn't be a need for filtering unsubscribed posts or having to reply directly to the poster at all. Further, many of the unsubscribed questions such as "I have a MAC, I can't access Calc" or "I have windows, where are the desktop icons" would simply go away. The problem is that a great deal of time is spent by volunteers (and you do a fine job BTW) on unsubscribed questions such as these. Why not fix the system to help the new user up front... feed a fish, but teach how to fish... Perhaps even an auto generated message by Delivered-To: moderator for [email protected] could be set up to send back a message stating something along the lines of: You have submitted a question to [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list. Please be aware that you are not subscribed to this list/newsgroup and any question that you ask may be responded to by other users, however you will not see the response unless: 1) you subscribe to the list/newsgroup, 2) a user is kind enough to reply to you directly (and which you still may not see due to spam blocking filters), or 3) you use nabble/archives/whatever to view the responses. Also please be advised that your question is now in public domain and can be view on the internet by anyone[1]. etc., etc. If your time is spent answering repetitive questions that are already answered by proper faqs and documentation, then your time is being wasted anyway[2]. Perhaps our time is better spent waving the stick at those that have the ability to put proper systems/proceedures in place and demanding that they do so, rather than spending endless hours answering unsubscribed questions that can be headed off at the begining. Then, if the user is still asking those types of questions we/volunteers/users can answer and know the posters will see the resonse. While you may think that your support of unsubscribed posts is a good thing - reaching out to the new folks so to speak - my guess is that endless email clutter due to this has probably cause many subscribed users to unsubscribe. Good folks that eventually may even end up volunteering a few good responses down the line; provided of course that they don't need to receive hundreds of emails each day in the process. This system *can* be fixed... [1] This has been discussed previously, and is a serious issue. Just review the "why is my email posted on the web" thread (which BTW all of the OP's personal info is already posted on the web with the exception of her cell phone number... but she's right; she never expected her message to be available on the web and should have been forwarned) for an example. [2] Granted, OOo has a serious problem with the website, but there are improvements being made daily to help address this issue (wikis, improved faqs, etc). So I have hope that eventually it will move out of the Sun Microsystems jumble to something that is actually somewhat userfriendly. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
