[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sunday 14 October 2007 10:50:16 Jim Hartley wrote:
James Knott wrote:
James wrote:
M Henri Day wrote:
2007/10/12, Mike B. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
At 10/11/2007 07:25 PM, you wrote:
From another thread I see someone has suggested that docx
support will be available in OOo v. 3 expected in 12
months. Frankly I think that is
way too long to wait to be able to mix it with the big boy-
not that I can offer any programming expertise to hurry it
up!

This is going to be a problem that spreads like the plague
over the next 12 months as people get sucked into the
"upgrade or perish" cycle and start spreading these things
around like a virus!
I think that MS has shot themselves in the foot trying to
upset OOo users.  They may have switched to an incompatible
format to convince users that OOo is a bad idea, but since
most MS Office users can't, or won't, upgrade in the near
future, there will be a lot of MS's own customers who get
frustrated and annoyed too.  This may be the software
equivalent of the PS2...

For those who aren't old enough to understand that
reference, I'll explain.  The rest, or those who don't care,
can just hit delete now...

Back in the early days of the IBM PC, IBM wanted to get rid
of clone-makers...those making computers that were
compatible with IBM-PCs, but cost less and worse, didn't put
money directly into the pocket of IBM (they did put money
there indirectly, by creating a larger market for PCs and
thus "floating all boats").  IBM tried to stifle the PClones
through the BIOS, but lost that battle in court...which
determined that reverse engineering was legal, if done
properly.  So IBM invented the Microchannel Buss, which they
patented and used as the basis of their new PS2 computer. This was a new buss design that was better than the ISA buss
in many ways, and if you wanted to make cards for it you had
to buy a license from IBM.  This added to the cost, and
there were rumors that IBM wouldn't sell licenses to those
making cards that competed with IBM's, but the extra cost
and physical incompatibilities with existing systems (both
IBM's and the PClones) was enough to put the general public
off the idea.  The public stuck with the ISA and IBM was
stuck with a lot of PS2s that didn't have a very large
selection of expansion cards.  The Microchannel buss died by
being too proprietary.  It's too bad that IBM didn't manage
to keep the IBM-PC proprietary too...so that a *good* design
could have had the market instead.

It may be that MS's new 2007 file formats are fighting too
large an established user base...both OOo and MS Office
prior to 2007...and don't offer enough good reason for
anyone to go through the expense of switching.  Certainly
not in the short term...like the next year or two.  If the
vast majority of users can't read them, those who do
"upgrade" to MS Office 2007 will just have to get used to
saving in 2003 or whatever format if they want to
communicate with the vast majority of users.

This would be a good opportunity to try to educate "Joe
Sixpack" about the wisdom of standards...especially for file
formats...and that use of proprietary formats should be
avoided.  Of course, given the number of posts I see on this
list from people who are paying for OOo or who can't
understand that OOo is NOT MS Office, it may be that many of
them *can't* be educated...

-- Mike B.
--
Slightly burned out, but still smokin'!
Mike, I don't think the problem is that people can't be
educated, but rather
that there are so many «educators» around, who, for example,
are «educating»
them to believe that they absolutely *must* have the latest
Microsoft «upgrade», for the sake of something called
«productivity». The silver lining is that when people have to
pay for something themselves, they tend
to ask questions about whether what they get is worth the
expenditure. Thus,
the reluctance of many, in particular businesses, to
«upgrade» to Vista. To
my mind, the best thing we can do, is to support the
initiative of the Globalisation Institute in Brussels (*not*,
by the way, by any means a «socialist» organisation, but
rather a strong advocate of «free markets»),
which has suggested to the European Commission that within
the EU, all computers must be sold without a bundled
operating system, in order to promote competition in this
vital area. More on this matter can be found here :
*http://tinyurl.com/2oboej*....

Henri
As a part-time <educator> in the Real Estate field & past
hardware & software designer (burned out) I, for one, am
promoting OO, Portable Apps & other GNU packages to my
students for the reasons of cost & compatibility.  Until the
past few months a couple of major hardware vendors here in
California were also offering some Linux based boxes for $300
and on sales as low as $150.  Now I notice they have gone back
to M$ with Vhome on all their boxes which are now starting at
$350.  The small drives on those boxes virtually guarantee
that within a service pack or two Vh will grow to, or beyond,
the capacity of those drives and the customers will be
"encouraged" to upgrade to "real" computer.  I know a great
many people in America & other areas of the world owe their
livelihoods to M$ but I just have never been able to deal with
the arrogance, high handed business tactics & consistent
delivery of a defective product by that company.  If hardware
had been as defective in the 60's we never would have made it
into space.  For my part the GNU is well worth all the support
it can receive.
Yesterday, I attended the "Ontario Linux Fest" in Toronto.  One
of the presenters described the efforts to provide computers to
very low income high school students.  They take donated
computers and install Linux, including OpenOffice on them.  One
thing they do, is set the default file formats to MS Office. The reason they do this is, thanks to the contract the school
board has with Microsoft, competing software, such as
OpenOffice, is banned from school computers, so teachers cannot
accept files in ODF.


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I can see the problem they have and I sympathize. But if I were
doing it I would set the default to RTF (which the Word-users can
read) and NOT get them into the habit of doing DOC files. A tiny
step, yes, but anything that can be done to combat DOC files will
also help the fight against DOCX (OOXML) files and the absurd
OOXML wannabee standard.

Jim Hartley

Another thing the schools there can do is just get Open Source Software and stop using MS software. The contract probably says they will not get MS software free or really cheap unless they use MS formats. They probably have the liberty to give up that free or really cheap MS software.

The same group providing the computers to the families can also provide the software to the schools. I'm sure the IT people at the schools know how to use Linux.

I wouldn't count on that one. I know a number of shops here in the Los Angeles area that are MS all the way and have never looked at any of the Linux distros. The may want to look into what some of the European Government sites are doing relative to OO. Some of them are actually posting the costs they would have faced with continued use of MS vs the cost of converting to OO including training, etc. Generally the payback comes in the first six months with the rest of the year and all the years following being nearly a complete saving of the M$ license fees. As a side benefit they can talk to the rest of Europe, Asia, America etc. without the upgrade or .rtf problem.

James

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