> From: David kerber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Not using a framework isn't quite the same thing as not using
> available packages and libraries.
Entirely true. However, many (though not all) of the existing packages assume
particular frameworks. If anyone wants a glimpse of a possible nightmare
future where a system tries to support multiple UI frameworks, look at Sakai -
they have everything from Velocity to JSF to RSF (Reasonable Server Faces,
their version of JSF that's lighter weight) and 3-4 other frameworks thrown in.
Now try adding functionality that cuts across tools written assuming different
frameworks....
> I haven't looked because we don't use them, but
> I'll bet there are plenty of 3rd party java library packages out there
> to generate blogs, shopping carts and the like, so you don't have to
> code them from scratch.
Plenty.
My reading of the OP's message was that they were trying to make a choice
between the available systems rather than code from scratch - and that they
hadn't decided (and didn't particularly care) whether the whole thing was
written in Java or PHP, as they weren't presently a Web developer and would be
learning on the job. *For that purpose*, I'd suggest that picking a system
that does much of what one wants is the way to go. I agree with others on the
list that *for other purposes* starting at the basics and working up is the way
to go. I may have a different view of what "basics" is, given that I *think* I
still carry around enough in my head that I could design a functional (if
basic) computer from the discrete components up through instruction set,
microcode if absolutely required, I/O, OS to applications ;-). I wish all
developers could think down to bare metal level, and beyond - it gives a very
solid grounding in *why* to code in a particular way.
- Peter
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