On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 8:00 AM, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> wrote:
>
> On Nov 2, 2010, at 11:12 PM, Jerome Velociter wrote:
>
> > Hi Vincent, all,
> >
> > See below
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Nov 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thibaut Camberlin wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Jerome Velociter <jer...@xwiki.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Actually I've been thinking maybe we could provide a Macros/ space
> >>>> with XE. The home page would be a improved version of the current
> >>>> XWiki.WikiMacros page (adding for example a ClassSheet for macros, a
> >>>> form to create a new macro, some documentation, etc.)
> >>>>
> >>>> WDYT?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> This polishing would empower a standard user to use this XWiki advanced
> >>> feature.
> >>
> >> I don't quite agree. Standard users shouldn't see this space. it's
> something technical and 99% of wiki users don't want/need to see it (and
> they won't even understand it). So for me this space would need to be hidden
> from simple users (same as for other tech spaces).
> >
> > Then we should probably hide them from the WYSIWYG tooIbar too, I guess
> ;)
> >
> > Seriously, the space could be blacklisted, but it should be discussed,
> > I'm not sure we want to have only admins seing it (personally I see
> > that space as being "documentation on macros existing in the wiki"
> > before being "a place to create new macros" - so not so technical in
> > the end).
>
> The reason is simple. Most people come to the wiki as a place where to find
> information (not as contributors) and they'll see the list of spaces listed
> on the home page mixed with spaces containing real content for that wiki.
> All I want is a separation between "business content" and technical content.
> I'm fine if we have 2 space lists on the home page, one for each type of
> content. But I really don't like to mix the two kind of content.
>
+1 for space separation, based on the user type (Advanced/Standard). It is
very disturbing to have technical spaces mixed with content/business spaces.
>
> > Maybe in some distant future we should have an intermediary level
> > between "Normal users" and "Admins". BTW do users that chose to be
> > "Advanced Users" in their profile see the blacklisted spaces ?
>
> yes.
>
> > Maybe
> > the intermediary level could be this one.
>
> I don't think we need one ATM.
>
> >> I'm not sure what the proposal is about exactly.
> >
> > Well it's not a proposal yet, rather an idea.
> >
> >> Some open questions: Would the macros stay where they are currently
> located?
> >
> > If you ask me some should be moved already (like {{spaces}} and
> > {{tags}}), since they are located in documents that already have
> > another purpose, and thus can not benefit from a potential
> > WikiMacroClassSheet (that for example could display the usage of the
> > macro and its parameters ; thus becoming a sort of self-contained
> > documentation for the held macro)
>
> Well I'm not sure. IMO the dashboard should be moved to a dashboard
> application and that spaces macro could be moved to that dashboard
> application.
> Recent Activity should be moved to an Activity application too and the
> activity macro there too.
>
> Basically I still believe strongly that we need to list all our default XE
> pages and assign them an application. I had done that exercise one and
> created the jira components in XE asa result. Maybe we should revisit this
> and do this mapping now?
>
> >> Shouldn't macros stay with their apps?
> >
> > Yes they should.
> > Right now we don't even have a rule for where to put applications
> > documents (in their own space ? with a Code suffix ? in the XWiki
> > space ? somewhere else ?)
>
> Yes we need to define that too. We've been quite poor in term of wiki
> content organization and as a result I feel that our default wiki content is
> a bit of a disorganized mess. We should improve. Want to lead a proposal?
>
Yes, we miss conventions on the naming. Moreover, AFAIR something is not
coherent between class wizard and livetable macro : The livetable macro
displays the template document because its name which is given by the class
wizard is not matching the one the livetable macro is expecting (and that
would be excluded).
>
> > I think the (not existing) UI at Macros.WebHome should retrieve and
> > list documents from the entire wiki, not just the Macros space.
>
> I agree
>
> > Same
> > as the scheduler (I changed that behavior just recently by the way - I
> > wanted my application scheduler jobs in my application space, not in
> > the Scheduler space - see http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XASCH-56)
>
> Yep seen that and I agree.
>
> >> Does it mean a new platform/application in svn?
> >
> > There is already one : the "wikibridge" I think, with just one
> > document now (the name is not correct though, I agree)
>
> Agree, it's a good place and it should be renamed or merged with another
> app, all depending if we find that there are macros that don't belong to any
> specific app.
>
I guess there are generic macros that don't belong to a specific app.
>
> >> What macros go there? When do we use wiki macros vs java macros (we
> haven't really decided on this I think)?
> >
> > I'm quite sure you will not agree, but I would say generic (i.e. not
> > tied to a particular application) wiki macros could go there. For
> > example {{spaces /}} or even {{activity /}} which goes beyond just the
> > dashboard app.
>
> See comment above about the dashboard and activity apps.
>
> >> Will java macros also be listed on that home page (they should IMO)?
> >
> > Yes they should. Maybe not under the exact same form, but they
> > definitely should be listed and documented here
> >
> >>
> >> Generally speaking I'm rather +1 (I'd like macros to stay in their apps
> though).
> >
> > Cool. I'm +1 too and +1 to have the possibility for apps to bring
> > their own macros.
>
> Let's continue this discussion.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> >
> > Jerome.
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >> PS: I didn't even know about
> http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/XWiki/WikiMacros ;) I wonder why it's
> not already using a livetable....
> >>
> >>> Here is my +1.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Jerome
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Arnaud bourree <
> arnaud.bour...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> 2010/11/2 Thomas Mortagne <thomas.morta...@xwiki.com>:
> >>>>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:14, Caleb James DeLisle
> >>>>>> <calebdeli...@lavabit.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> If you're contributing a macro then just log in and fgo to this
> page.
> >>>>>>> http://code.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Macros/CreateMacro
> >>>>>>> It will put the macro in the Macros space and automatically add it
> to
> >>>> the index.
> >>>>>>> Thanks for contributing to code.xwiki.org ;)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think Thomas was talking about his how macro space, not where to
> put
> >>>>>> contributed macro documentation.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, thanks Thomas,
> >>>>> I decided to used Macros space.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Arnaud.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Caleb
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 11/02/2010 04:57 AM, Arnaud bourree wrote:
> >>>>>>>> 2010/11/2 Caleb James DeLisle <calebdeli...@lavabit.com>:
> >>>>>>>>> In your own wiki I think you want to put macros in a space where
> you
> >>>> will be able to find them
> >>>>>>>>> easily. The XWiki space is full of important internals and I
> wouldn't
> >>>> recommend putting any macros
> >>>>>>>>> in there.
> >>>>>>>>> "Macros" sounds like a fine choice.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I ask question more for macro we contribute to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Arnaud.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Caleb
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 11/02/2010 04:40 AM, Arnaud bourree wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Where is the best space to put macros?
> >>>>>>>>>> I check in some macro from code.xwiki.org, and find that macros
> are
> >>>>>>>>>> commonly put in XWiki, Macros or Macro space.
> >>>>>>>>>> I've a preference for Macros as it self explanatory and I think
> >>>> XWiki
> >>>>>>>>>> space more dedicated to XE pages.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Arnaud.
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